3rd Person View

As it isn’t going to be very popular, I just think that having the option for 3rd Person would be funner, for me at least. It’s a bit irritating that its really only allowed with devmap which makes no sense.

This isn’t the best idea but just mostly giving the player the option of it.

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This is in development and the cheat protection on cg_thirdperson1 has been removed on the test server so you can view the new models more clearly.

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no more flank

3rd person can work in Trem and still have flanking if it is appropriately restricted. On the test7341 server, while we made it so that third person isn’t a cheat, the viewing position and the angles relative to your avatar are fixed.

These relative viewing position and angles might need to be adjusted at some point to more ideal values though. Additionally there should be some HUD elements (some of which might be 3d) that make the third person view more practical, such as new kinds of crosshairs.

The reason third person view has always been restricted is it allows you to look around corners before you go around them. Unless that is entirely prevented, which isn’t necessarily even possible, it should not be unlocked.

To a certain degree, is that necessarily a bad thing?

It could be a bad thing for scrims.

If that is the case, it could be disabled for scrims. But still, why is it necessarily a bad thing to be able to relatively safely peek around corners? Would it take away from the fun? Would it make things less balanced (considering all players would have this ability)? It might change strategies a bit, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

It’s giving humans a helmet at S1. They can peek round any corner on any map and know if there are aliens behind. It’s a pretty massive advantage and it would both take away the fun for aliens (getting killed by humans who know exactly where they are) and it would disrupt balance (allowing humans to see where the aliens are behind the corners).

It wouldn’t allow you to see through walls, doors, and many other obstacles. Additionally you would have to be positioned a certain way relative to the corners to see around them.

Yes. Yes it is. It favors humans because alien models are larger so they can’t do it as easily without their legs being visible around the corner. It also means people can see what is coming in advance to decide whether to run or not, while the opponent can only rely on their radar to know that there is a person there. Furthermore, in some locations, third person view is messed up due to hint brushes and model rendering.

Furthermore, it seems stupid that you would be able to see things that your player model could not see. It also gives an advantage for using it, but makes fighting more difficult due to the change in perspective that players are not used to.

It’s better than helmet in some situations because it updates immediately, not every half second (or however long it takes) like the helmet does. For checking around corners, it is even better than a helmet. Not all maps even have doors, and the “certain way” you have to be positioned is not even close to being “certain”. You simply have to turn towards the wall you are trying to look around and, since your view position is behind you, it will see around the corner even if your player model couldn’t.

Many very good and successful games utilize views other than first person (i’m not saying that that means that Tremulous should not remain predominantly first person).

Since this feature uses a client side cvar (although we will probably add a server side cvar for server ownsers to be able to diable/enable the option for everyone), it is simple to switch back and forth between third person and first person views. Playing in 3rd person does require some different skills from playing in first person, especially in combat, but it is doable.

dretch is at a disadvantage if it doesn’t utilize hiding spots and surprise woopage to the full extent

Except when you have australian connection

You imply this gives a serious competitive advantage. Whilst it allows you to see behind and around corners with certain angling the benefits of this is outweighed by the undeniable fact is it much more difficult to aim and your frontal vision is obscured. Not to mention good sound awareness provides many of these benefits like hearing through walls and around corners.

The only thing I would say is that it should only be toggle once every few minutes to avoid exploitation of it in the ideal scenario. Third person should be used for players who prefer this type of playstyle/gameplay or for quickly viewing what your in game model looks like before returning to normal play. It should not be used for a competitive advantage and further restrictions could be set to impose this.

You don’t think lightmap gives a competitive edge? Some people prefer it off despite this, including people in the scrim scene.

Allowing people to see behind corners =/= making a dark map a bit brighter.

Seeing behind corners at S1 is a serious competitive advantage.

Using teamwork would counter this - human #1 checks round corners while his teammates stand guard.

I don’t understand why people would seriously want to give humans the ability to see round corners at S1. It will obviously make humans more powerful and mess up the balance.

If it were re-done so that it wouldn’t show you what’s around the corner I have no objection to it.

Ok, this may sound crazy, but I wanted to propose an “idea” I just thought, I may be ignored like other times but I dont care, my objective is to get trem better. Why intead of fully allowing 3rd person view, make it purchaseable through the armory in the form of a drone which follows you from behind with a reasonable cost for S1, allowing time for aliens to get some evos and goon around before humans get his first drone (the drone would be a permanent purchase, only losing it if you sell it)

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!scrimon on disables this feature, teamwork does not exist in pubs

There’s a reason why lightmap was made into a cheat-protected cvar in GPP.

This is another problem; top players can stay in first person while fighting and then toggle third person whenever they need to look around a corner. You don’t even have to worry about having trouble fighting in third person, since you can switch back to first person as soon as there’s a fight. With a simple toggle bind, any player could selectively look around corners with no drawbacks.

This would be rather difficult as it is a client-side cvar. It would take a lot of modification, and would be more trouble than it’s worth.

Besides what is usualy required for adding an upgrade in general (including new assets), to make such a drone perform such a functionality, just making use of another bit flag in pm_flags (which still has enough room) to communicate this change in player state from the server to the client, and adding in one more condition for cg.renderingThirdPerson in the cgame should work.