Der Bunker (zittrig.eu)

[MaeJong]

@enneract

I’m sure you’ll get a much more elaborate answer if you ask one of your (former) admins.

That’s without counting on the fact our opinions don’t matter if they differ.

[enneract]

@dGr8LookinSparky

You don’t have to believe me, reality will set in sooner or later.

Are you saying you’re predicting problems in Der Bunker administration? I don’t think there’s a reason to believe that.

[dGr8LookinSparky]

@enneract

Are you saying you’re predicting problems in Der Bunker administration? I don’t think there’s a reason to believe that.

Actually yes I do. I predict that any active game server that uses QVMs that have some or all of the same fundamental problems, with the current state of affairs will experience major problems in their administration sooner or later. But if @enneract , Der Bunker’s server owner, is going to disregard that point, then I guess Der Bunker will be putting my prediction to the test and we’ll see by yet another example if I’m right or wrong on that issue. Good luck.

@enneract

You just wouldn’t deal with persistent trolls like Desala.

If by dealing with desala you mean taking actions that would prevent him from connecting the game server, it doesn’t look like Der Bunker has done any better in that regard. I stopped by Der Bunker and played a match in the last couple of days and it appeared that desala was there. Also the desala topic on these forums still gets updated with new material.

[enneract]

@dGr8LookinSparky

I predict that any active game server that uses QVMs that have some or all of the same fundamental problems.

Explain what exactly the fundamental problems are.

@dGr8LookinSparky

If by dealing with desala you mean taking actions that would prevent him from connecting the game server, it doesn’t look like Der Bunker has done any better in that regard.

We let him play because he stopped deconning after we showed him he couldn’t evade anymore.

[Ckit]

@dGr8LookinSparky

if we had one or two admins sitting in GrangerPub most of the time ready to play whenever anyone showed up, GrangerPub would probably be repopulated in about a week.

WRONG - You already tried this and it didn’t work. Oblivion also tried it on his server.

@dGr8LookinSparky

as soon as someone joined and the server did start to get decent sized games going over those periods.

“decent sized” = 4 players according to gametracker data.

@dGr8LookinSparky

However, that wouldn’t address a fundamental problems GrangerPub has had from the beginning

THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT DER BUNKER NOT GRANGERPUB (see above flags)
THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT DER BUNKER NOT GRANGERPUB (see above flags)

@dGr8LookinSparky

Little known fact, at the time players were moving to Der Bunker, GrangerPub had a bit over 50 admins, with about 2/3 of them active, and still so many problems occurred. That is just a ridiculous requirement for a game server to be active about 24/7. Thinking in terms broader than just GrangerPub, new game server owners don’t stand much chance in first sustaining activity, and secondly doing so without a ton of headaches.

THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT DER BUNKER NOT GRANGERPUB (see above flags)
Yeah, call the fact that over 50% of your admins are quitting due to your bullshit as “intentional downsizing”

@dGr8LookinSparky

Regardless, the same fundamental problems exist in whatever they are using now, and I don’t think that a ton of patches on top of that QVM are going to fix any of those fundamental problems for them.

WRONG
How would you know?

@dGr8LookinSparky

“Band-aid solutions” will no longer suffice, long term solutions are needed.

You add enough bandaids and the wound heals on it’s own.

GrangerHub method - Amputate the limb where the wound is located, then proceed to replace the digit with a wooden pole dipped in cat turd.

@dGr8LookinSparky

So we are focusing on finishing 1.3 which would allow us to upgrade GrangerPub with a proper QVM (that would still have 1.1 vanilla game play).

Wonderful.

THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT DER BUNKER NOT GRANGERPUB (see above flags)

@dGr8LookinSparky

If by dealing with desala you mean taking actions that would prevent him from connecting the game server, it doesn’t look like Der Bunker has done any better in that regard.

Desala is behaving and is now a valued member of our community. At Der Bunker we appreciate and listen to our players and admins.

[enneract]

One more thing I should add:

@dGr8LookinSparky

But if @enneract , Der Bunker’s server owner, […]

I wouldn’t call myself the server’s owner. I am hosting and taking care the technical aspects of the server, but administrative decisions are made by a group of almost 10 high admins. I should have included “concentration of power” in the list of probable reasons your administration fell apart.

[Helper_Bot]

@Ckit

Ok, thats all fine and great but what does that have to do with “Der Bunker (zittrig.eu)” ?

It is answering @Blizz question about GrangerHub having to do something to keep the “monopoly”

@Blizz

if Ghub don’t do something (something better of what they are giving right now), they will “lose the monopoly”.

[dGr8LookinSparky]

@enneract

We let him play because he stopped deconning after we showed him he couldn’t evade anymore.

That is the approach that was done on GrangerPub, when he got out of hand, he would keep being banned on sight as he was evaded over and over and over and over until he “behaved” again.

@enneract

Explain what exactly the fundamental problems are.

That is one of the main subjects that these forums are about, and something that we have been discussing for awhile here on these forums. But to sum up some of the big ones:

• It is way too easy for matches to be ruined by intentional griefers as well as by inexperienced players.

• The whole experience is very unfriendly towards inexperienced players.

• There is not much to lose from violating rules if you know how to evade and are willing to do it.

• Way too many admins are required, and way too much attention from them is required.

@enneract

I wouldn’t call myself the server’s owner.

If you are the one who has the legal responsibility for the game server, then you are the server’s owner. That is how it works legally. A game server has to be owned by some entity, whether it be an individual, a corporation, a not-for-profit organization, or some other legally recognized entity. But if you encounter a lawsuit for whatever reason, you can try the following “argument” in court and see how far that gets you:

@enneract

but administrative decisions are made by a group of almost 10 high admins.

[enneract]

@dGr8LookinSparky

That is the approach that was done on GrangerPub, when he got out of hand, he would keep being banned on sight as he was evaded over and over and over and over until he “behaved” again.

Wishful “retroactive” thinking? This never happened or at least no one noticed a difference.

@dGr8LookinSparky

It is way too easy for matches to be ruined by intentional griefers as well as by inexperienced players.

Not that easy if there are admins playing. See the points below.

@dGr8LookinSparky

The whole experience is very unfriendly towards inexperienced players.

Does this affect server administration?

@dGr8LookinSparky

There is not much to lose from violating rules if you know how to evade and are willing to do it.

A skilled server operator can prevent evading.

@dGr8LookinSparky

Way too many admins are required, and way too much attention from them is required.

Only if you let people evade using random VPNs and decon all the time.

@dGr8LookinSparky

That is how it works legally.

What do I care how it works legally? I was talking about distribution of power and how it helps administrate the server.

[dGr8LookinSparky]

I offered my opinion on where some major problems may come from, @enneract disregarded that and claims that he could do better with the same kind of technology and that he has a better way to manage an administration and operate a game server. So good luck with that approach, I’m not going to argue with @enneract any further about whether or not there are flaws in @enneract 's approach, no need to even discuss hypothetical in this regard, now @enneract is on stage so to speak and @enneract will have to produce results.

I will be very interested to see what happens in the long term with Der Bunker if it doesn’t change its current approach (and I would be interested to see if it does change its approach at some time and to what, and what follows from that).

[DevHC]

@dGr8LookinSparky

Little known fact, at the time players were moving to Der Bunker, GrangerPub had a bit over 50 admins, with about 2/3 of them active, and still so many problems occurred.

probably cuz the definition of „active” is a lie; BUTT most importantly, the procedures for reporting abuse r retarded (and there r other issues). @enneract: r the abuse-reporting procedures on Der Bunker better ?

@Ckit

@dGr8LookinSparky

“Band-aid solutions” will no longer suffice, long term solutions are needed.

You add enough bandaids and the wound heals on it’s own.

u’re both WRONG. band-aid solutions apparently work in these days — exactly as displayed by the attractive force of Der Bunker —, and long-term solutions r needed S00N™(R)(C).

Desala is behaving and is now a valued member of our community. At Der Bunker we appreciate and listen to our players and admins.

i hereby --announce my entry into-- remind u that i am also a (valued ?) member of the Bunker community. i shall be appreciated and listened to: desala shall be grabbed by the pussy.

@dGr8LookinSparky

@enneract

I wouldn’t call myself the server’s owner.

If you are the one who has the legal responsibility for the game server, then you are the server’s owner. That is how it works legally.

WRONG (u could be operating a server on behalf of a different owner, such as: u’re payed to protect the server). also „if u’re the server’s owner, then u have legal responsibility for the game server” would be correct in the sense that „if someone gets abused in connection with the server, and legal authorities fail to apprehend the true abusers, then it’s possible that the weight will be partially offloaded on u”, but is practically misleading. because most ppl, especially after seeing what’s going on on GrangerHub, associate the singuar term „server owner” with some sort of DICKtator that fucks over anyone who fails to follow some absurd protocol by even the slightest bit.

also note that paying a puny 1–2 $/month (or, 4 if buying from congested country, or 20 if u suck @ cash management) is very small compared to the cost of real admin work, if the latter were to be measured. this means that it’s faggy for „server owners” to follow a „here, i own ur ass; take it or leave it” mentality. what @enneract is probably saying, is that he opens appropriate, meritocratic access, to the forum and the game server, with this in mind.

@dGr8LookinSparky

@enneract […] claims that he could do better with the same kind of technology

technology is better. for example, @enneract has an anti-desala system.