I wouldn’t say it’s useless. On cannon maps, for example, with lots of wide open space and perches high on the wall, it enables humans access where no other way would work. I vividly recall MD sniping down from one of the lights in the corner on treecannon (I think - it’s been a while since I played any of the cannon maps).
In addition, consider that we’ve always had it.
Argument from history
Yes, but for the Trem community, that means getting rid of it is liable to annoy a lot of players.
Just my feelings in regard to the jetpack.
Jetpack is what gives humans the verticality that aliens possess for free. They need to give up Bsuit and spend credits for it, build on high ground appropriately and can be used offensively (stay in the air during rushes to avoid clogging up areas) or defensively (to escape danger). Builders can use it. Defenders can use it. Rushers can use it.
Removing it is like removing the hovel. I believe the direction 1.3 is taking by revamping parts of the game at an attempt to improve those parts is a much better idea than outright removing elements of 1.1 and replacing them with “gadgets” or some shit.
What I’m trying to say is that aliens have the ability to go up walls and access higher areas, which humans without jetpacks cannot do. At this point, alot of the default maps are designed with this in mind.
When you want to build on higher ground that, through walking, would take too long.
When you want to escape danger, such as jumping to the higher platforms in Arachnid2.
When goons go apeshit in the outside area of ATCS. Atleast with the 1.1 jetpack, you have the option of grabbing a couple guys together with lasguns and forcing them back indoors.
When the alien base goes down and a few grangers try to hide and start new bases on vertical areas that are either difficult or impossible for humans to normally get to.
The fact is that aliens can wallwalk and humans cannot, but the jetpack compensated for that.
Building structures provokes camps. Everything in Tremulous can be argued to “provoke” camping unless we turn it into Quake 3. The point is that jetpacks give players options, while taking it away removes options. Instead of removing something cool because it can be abused, it should be reworked to fit the game better.
Then I’d say the developers behind 1.3 shouldn’t make the mistake that GPP did and instead consider ways of making it useful, just like the jetpack.
Any map where jetpack can get beyond the range of aliens is a badly designed map. ATCS’ outside area is a good height to allow poisoned Dragoons to pounce the humans and bring them down while keeping them high enough to avoid Tyrants and the like.
Hovel is a Barricade with almost twice as much health for 0 cost (200 HP vs. 375 HP). The Hovel also has a shorter build time (15 seconds vs. 20 seconds), does more splash damage upon death than the Overmind (albeit to a shorter range), and enables a shit ton of glitch building and falling out of maps. I think the Hovel actually accounted for the majority of game-breaking bugs that were present in vanilla 1.1.0. The reason it was removed in GPP was because it was a massive problem to fix.
With this post I undestand that you think Aliens are more favored than Humans. I think the opposite.
Aliens has to reach humans. If an alien is away from an Human, then he’s dead or useless. Humans have big advantages on open areas. Even if they cant climb on walls, they still can reach every place (just firing).
Aliens = good for small/closed areas
Humans = good for open spaces
Anyway a good Human can kill few aliens on small/closed areas. A good Alien in open areas is always a dead Alien.
Nope. I never saw all human/alien team waiting for the builder (only if there’s the RC move). Even there is a base move, players continue to play (unless there are 5 goon vs 5 rifles, but that is shitmove=grief).
Cause the opposite thing too. If I’m goon and I lose 100 HP because there are 2 jetcampers, then I just come back to my base instead of rushing.
= Shitmaps. All maps should allow to both teams to reach every possible base. (Teams, not classes)
No. I’m saying that aliens are able to take advantage of the vertical spaces of maps that humans cannot. Thats why the Jetpack is an important piece of the Human arsenal.
I’m not talking about the advantages/disadvantages of either race. I’m saying that the jetpack was an equalizer for alien wall-walking abilities. I don’t care how different either side is, as long as they have options to achieve (relatively) similar results.
I disagree on the basis that structures are a pretty damn important factor when it comes to camping in Tremulous.
Yes, “jetcamping” is a thing, however on the current Test server the jetpack isn’t infinite anymore. Combine this with the human’s need to go back to the Medipad and you can probably grab a few ADV goons together and bring them down. This is what I’m talking about. Reworking > Removing.
Which is a factor that could be very difficult to squash when we consider that aliens can wall-walk anywhere, which is why jetpacks are important. Would I prefer if maps were redesigned like this? Yes. Doesn’t mean its any less useful.
Maps should all be designed with the famous ''I am the last NIGGER dretch hiding in a high placed vent what U gonna do S1 humans?" in mind (sry karith I stil love you tho) imo
@Hendrich: Just a rapid answer:
I disagree about what you think of Jet.
Even if there are different ways to camp, I prefer someone that play on ground instead of someone in the sky.
On every match players who has most kills (and so that gives a shake to the game) never uses/barely uses jetpack.
Jetpack isn’t something that fight the wall-walk because I don’t fight dretches, basilisk and grangers with it (I prefer Flamer at this point). If they want to stay where I can shot them without being bited, better for me.
I hope that fuel will work.
“How u got me U evul hakr” Blizz talking to that ____ of GhostisLoL (true fact)
Jetpack is a powerful asset against tyrants if you use it right. More useful so than getting to higher places to usually build retarded bases that aren’t worth shit.
Rapid answer: U prefer playing vs Serdinho or vs Desala?
Sorry wrong: vs Dracone or vs Desala?
Not interesting to?
60%-65% players play to win (or at least to get many kills with shotgun, goon, etc. still competitive coz I want to reach something): diff is the way they play (and energies spent)
My opinion: every Multiplayer game is “competitive” I play against someone to __
If I want to play to relax, I do something different
If I want to play to talk, I go out with my friends
If I want to play to being pissed by Desala, I stay with my gf (joking - 50%/50%)
If this game grows again, matches will be more funny (competitive) and there will be (again) more scrims and clans to beat (old funny times). —> ENTL period peak of this game
When U start to rush someone has already feeded. I still don’t get the problem.[quote=“DevHC, post:37, topic:91”]
99% of the statistics r fabricated.
[/quote]
Is camping a problem? Kinda.
Is camping annoying, not skillfull, boring to play against and something that usually won’t win you games? Yes.
The problem with camping is that the game slows down. I’ve said this before in another thread or maybe this one because this got necro’d hard: aliens can’t camp the same way humans camp. Imagine a game where you’d divide all the skill from the players on the server into percentages and the outcome would be something 60% of total skill is in the alien team, and 40% is in the human team. This should result in aliens getting stage 2 first (or more importantly, humans not getting stage 2 first, leaving them helmetless vs goons) Humans now have the option to either camp and hope the goons get impatient, or to rush out for kills risking as3 but possibly getting hs2. In public games, the sad truth is that you might get some people to work together, but people are usually more inclined to listen to “let’s all camp” rather than “let’s go tunnel and try get s2” If the skill divide was the other way around: 60%h/40%a then Aliens can’t make this decision, because if they’re at the point where they get to make this decision, they’ve lost all map control and aliens camping in their own base will lose structures to nades/pulses/lucis. If the games are seriously stacked then the stacked team should have no problem defeating the enemy, even if those are camping humans.
On spawn camping: spawn camping a node in default after humans have moved to bunker, is a scummy but totally legit tactic that often gets you an early stage 2, the same goes for when aliens leave an egg up in a weird place. If it’s the last egg/node of the game however, stop killwhoring and end it, pathetic retards, that honestly triggers me so hard i often wish i could ban people for it.
Sidenote: The people that complain the most about camping are usually tyrants sitting just around the blind spot in atcs tunnel. If you use tyrant in a public game when your base isn’t under attack, you have no right to complain about camp.
TL;DR Fuck campers and fuck rants complaining about campers.
