First I should mention that this game play change we are trying is planned to only be a part of the Swirl Game Mode (that is the new game play we are developing), and not a part of the Vanilla Game Mode (which is the 1.1 vanilla game play port).
The more important aspect of this change is more about human/alien radar not detecting enemies than detecting friendlies. There are reasons we are experimenting with this:
it makes it easier for players on both teams to flank as well as position themselves strategically around maps.
It makes it easier for both teams to build forwards and to move their bases to remote locations.
it makes it easier for both teams to recover from massive damage and more likely for games to be turned around.
it adds more surprise to the game and put players on edge
it results in players focusing more on their spacial surroundings than on dots in the HUD (better for immersion).
it makes it easier to catch wall hackers
radar detection of enemies isn’t needed, from the matches I’ve seen with this change so far, both teams can still be effective in winning.
The reason the radar detects friendlies at the moment is to provide some aid in team awareness. While I believe it is definitely a good thing to have some mystery to the status of the enemy team, it is still important to be aware of the status of your own team. Although there are better ways to help with team awareness than what the friendly radar detection does, and we might ultimately reduce or remove the friendly radar detection as well.
The only things this change makes easier are corner camping and stalling (hiding/running after losing the match). It won’t matter much strategically¹, because everything in the game makes noise (footsteps, respawning, Repeaters, Overminds, etc.).
Also, if you want to nerf radars like this, then remove them completely. Right now they only clutter the screen with (almost) useless information.
¹ Unless you consider pissing the enemies off and making them quit a strategy.
@dGr8LookinSparky @enneract Not only about 1.3 not being radars (and changes being made).
But 1.3 is working on a Way-point system (If I heard correctly), or something better(or semi-same) of that
We have something implemented to address such situations, it has worked well, but I’m not sure if it is the most elegant solution.
If all of a given team’s spawns and om/rc are dead, then after X amount of time expires (currently 120 seconds) without your team rebuilding an om/rc, everyone on your team will take damage until death (like with admit defeat although this damage can still be canceled if the rc/om finishes building before everyone on your team dies). In such a situation you still have a chance to recover if you have a builder, and/or a chance (maybe slim) to still kill the enemy team before the time limit runs out.
Not everything has ambient sounds. Not every class has footsteps (i.e. dretches and basilisks). Plus any player can walk without footsteps by holding the walk button (that also makes you walk slower). Audio cues don’t reveal the enemy location precisely/reliably as much as the radar detection does. Additionally audio cues work better for immersion than radar dots.
Yes, that is something we are working on that will assist with awareness.
Something that I’m considering.
The radar (at least the human one) is imprecise too.
And Tremulous is an arcade game. Everything’s happening so fast there’s rarely any point in stealth.
Radars can still detect enemy structures, which is a godsend on more complex/larger maps where one asshole can hide an effective egg + booster combo location, prompting you to scout it out.
On that note: If we can’t detect enemies anymore, can we atleast improve the readability of the radar? I never liked how it was displayed for 1.1 humans compared to the alien radar.
Not with the current implementation we are testing. At the moment alien/human radar only detects friendly players/buildables.
So far in such situations on large/complex maps, they still get found (the sound the egg makes from spawning helps with this as well).
Yes, no one wants to waste time running around the map trying to find the last egg hidden in some shithole.
I don’t understand why enemies/enemy buildables don’t appear on the radar when they’re in your/one of your teammates’ fields of vision? This makes no sense to me.
I like the element of surprise that came back into the game! Also, if you’re human and crouch, you can move without making noise.
Enemies? Okay, I get it. Buildables not being detected? Why? For what purpose? Alien buildings do not need an “element of surprise” especially when their purpose is for defense.
I’m going to take a guess and assume that this is being done to bring back the “surprise” element of alien attacks and alien forward bases. However, I don’t like this approach because it basically nerfs the radar to being virtually useless.
Wouldn’t a better compromise be that:
- All alien structures built near OM are always revealed on the radar.
- Any alien structures built away from OM are always hidden on the radar.
- Once OM is killed, all remaining alien structures are no longer hidden on the radar.
- If OM is rebuilt, all alien structures (including OM) are given a 1 minute grace period of radar invisibility, then [Step #1-3] kicks back in.
This way, the radar is still useful in some capacity while still letting aliens be “stealthy”.
- Keep old helmet + radar
- Introduce more blind spots to maps
you people manage to “solve” issues that didn’t exist in the first place.
Or not. This is for the “Swirl” gamemode. Tremulous 1.3 will have a “1.1 Style” gamemode without all this bullshit. Its because of this that I’m more open for the radar being tweaked in different ways to see if we get different results. I just don’t prefer it being used for a giant friendly indicator.
It can also be assumed that aliens would have some advanced sensory abilities that allow them to have radar through scent or heat detection.
If you are already looking at an enemy, why do you need the radar to tell you that you are looking at it?
Interesting suggestions, but I’m unsure that they would make positive difference to the game play. After a few weeks worth of dev games with the current changes to the radar (I’m not saying that we aren’t going to change it more or maybe even remove it completely, and we will be implementing other things to help with game awareness like waypoints), it seems that enemy detection by radar to any extent is not necessary. But, I wonder if it would be beneficial to have something in the HUD that just indicates only that an enemy is “in range”.
I also included the teammates’ fields of vision in my comment. It makes perfect sense that if your team is able to communicate their exact location (via radar) then they would be able to communicate the location of enemies/enemy buildables.
To answer your question: it’s helpful (for me, especially if fighting multiple opponents), and it actually makes logical sense.
I have played on the test server with this new implementation and I can say 100% that I disliked this lack of enemies on radar.
I got a few ideas:
-Radar applied on enemy for 10s / double time with poison if crosshair went over them for whole team to see
-Same as above for strucctures except spotting lasts forever which helps team communication in a way
-Destroying om cuts off the creep, structures takengradual damage KoRx style and players are unable to regen
-Destroying rc means humans lose radar and jetpack functions
-DCC and boosters spot in a 1000 unit circle for enemies to show on radar
-Bsuit equipped wih radar asnwell
-Humans damaged by any alien attack also is spotted
Please don’t say shit. Do you want to see 4 csuit with radar ?