It’s not torn apart. Everyone simply moved to Der Bunker.
If Der Bunker is worse then how come everyone moved there and not the other way around? I’m not exactly sure what kind of a clusterfuck happened behind the scenes at GrangerHub but servers don’t just go empty for no reason.
Also hold on for a moment…
WTF? You realize GrangerHub’s mods are the ones doing the censoring, right?
Oh, you don’t know about that massive lag that happened?
You know… the same that happened on your server…
Well let me refresh you what happened.
Players got huge lags, player disconnected, went on derbunker where (strangely enough) there was no lag at this time.
How come the fact that Ghub had lag (probably an attack, since the server’s are pretty stable.) and not derbunker?
Server’s don’t go empty like that, the players need a really good reason to leave.
And (my thoughts) this is too much of a coincidence to be just a “lag-spike” that got them to leave…
I feel, in your posts that you ain’t always giving the truth…
As for the censoring:
Hmm as I remember, those who censored are now in your team… How strange… Otherwise I didn’t see much censoring lately.
Anyway, I’m not here to fight over your case, I’m here to bring what’s should be obvious to everyone.
Now either stop being so stubborn or just don’t reply.
You’re misinformed. We got hit hard by a DoS attack as soon as we got players. The difference is I was competent enough to identify and solve the problem.
I agree. Der Bunker was just an experimental multiprotocol server (you could tell from the number of daily segfaults) that unexpectedly got populated when GrangerPub was attacked. It could be a coincidence, but I’m pretty sure someone did this intentionally, to empty GrangerHub’s servers.
Who are you talking about?
Why start a debate if you immediatelly tell the opponent to stop replying?
The most important thing that GrangerHub (and to extension, the 1.3 Tremulous development team) should be focusing on is a stable, successful release of 1.3. Enough said.
and found that Der Bunker was the better place all the long, possibly due to slightly more refined gamelogic. also, such a migration to a different game server (ie. from GrangerPub to Der Bunker) can happen with or without migration to a different community organization (ie. from GrangerHub to Zittrig), and i’m sure some individual’s migration was primarily to escape from the clutches of DICKBUTTs, eg. look at @Ckit’s case.
however, even after the game-server migration, i still recall seeing Club being used for scrims for some time — and now, well, there r no scrims to speak about. (also, i used to connect to test7341 sporadically.)
otherwise, if GrangerHub were better in overall, why didn’t everyone migrate back, when the said lags stopped ?
to answer the original question: thus, there is no foreseeable death of Tremulous.
There are two major kinds of issues that Tremulous always had that imo were the primary factors that lead to the massive shrinking of the playerbase over the years:
Technical problems with the game itself
Excessive drama in the community
Those two issues are directly related, and feed on each other. The technical problems in the game amplifies drama, and excessive drama distracts from improving the game, and chases away developers, asset contributors, modders, server owners, and players in general.
Part of the problem was also with how the Tremulous community has been managed over the years, that is, it has been mostly neglected, and so many forums (including the one that was suppose to be the most important in Trem, tremulous.net) have been moderated wild west style, where anything goes, and abusiveness and uncivil behavior, which are detrimental to any project, is hidden behind claims of “free speech.”
At GrangerHub we wanted to try something different. Provide a place for the Tremulous community and game where they aren’t neglected. Where people can participate in a sane environment without having to worry having to worry about being constantly trolled, griefed, nor harassed. Where constructive criticism and civil debates can take place but is not confused with uncivil behavior which will not stand.
I’m not going to sugarcoat it, GrangerHub has had some issues in the implementation and practice of our principals in the Tremulous community, it has not been perfect, there has been some malicious trollage, there has been some excessive drama at times, but I think we are figuring it out. Perhaps currently, GrangerHub’s community needs to shrink a bit momentarily before really growing in the long term. But what is most important is improving the quality, and from that the quantity will follow.
It is of my opinion that if these two kinds of issues (technical and excessive drama) are not addressed in a reasonable amount of time, Tremulous will reach its end in its very near future. I believe that we (the Tremulous community) are at a point where in the very near future, either Tremulous will bounce back and start to regrow after the issues are resolved, or it will die, but definitely the status quo will not remain.
If some people want to try things in a project that have demonstrated consistently in the past to lead to poor outcomes for other projects, it is their choice how to spend their free time. If such another project happens to improve their behavior, and catch on to the correct ways to run a project, then they could become a plus to the Tremulous community. Either way, the Tremulous community is not a zero sum game, where in order for one project to succeed in the long term, another project must fail (which some people may have that flawed view). On the contrary, if Tremulous has multiple successful projects, that is only better for the community. But if a project outside of GrangerHub fails, that will not drag down GrangerHub. GrangerHub will be there for people who like to participate under the community guidelines we setup.
But I’m not interested in saying “I told you so” about what will kill Trem for good, because at that point trem would be dead. Instead I’m working to make a positive difference in the game community, improving the game, and have fun doing it with friends. What is very important is that GrangerHub follows through on what it set out to do, that it actually produces results, that is what really matters in the long term, and what most players will care about, actual results. Ultimately they will see through any bullshit when it is deomnstrated that something isn’t working, and that something else is working.
Maybe my efforts are futile, maybe trem will die relatively soon regardless (I don’t think so though), but at least for those who want to work on trem in a sane environment and have fun with friends can do so until “the end” comes. So for those who want to have fun participating with Tremulous and its community, it is my recommendation that you shouldn’t waste your precious time/energy/focus being sucked into drama and trying to reasonably argue with irrationality (an impossible task), there are awesome and fun things that need to be done, and if Tremulous will die in the near future (but I do think that we do have a good shot at a proper trem revival), that makes our time working with it that much more precious.
I’m afraid you’ve achieved exactly the opposite. I think it’s about time you take a good long look at yourself and your actions or GrangerHub won’t even survive long enough to release 1.3.
Dictionaries say:
to continue to exist or live
Well, shit.
They’d be doing a better job even if they hadn’t done anything. They are doing shit however. You’re talking without knowing about the situation better, so I can only hold the bullshit spreading from _some people_™ accountable, and not you personally.
By getting mad at the competition the day they steal their playerbase, kicking every one of their mods that they think is affiliated with them, and using the bullshit excuse that “Tremulous is not in good hands with Enneract” and “You might get trolled by Afftk again!”1 as their motive to kick me out.
1: That happened days prior to them taking my moderation rights away. The “holyshit u’re escalating stuff so much!” is invalid, as they have willingly not moderated censored defamation against members of the Tremulous community but my formal, honest non-vulgar answers to them instantly. Rather; only when the situation actually escalated on the “I’m getting shit from Sparky, that disallows me to take action properly from my position, when I’m supposed to do something” had they decided to do something. The best part is Afftk is yet to receive sanctions for his actions and sockpuppeting.
@avarthar returns from his ritual months of inactivity to kindly inform us all of the current situation. Your valuable insight and understanding on this topic is very much appreciated. You should work at CNN.
All jokes aside, you are WRONG.
Wait, what?
Yes, and that’s been the bullshit they’ve been bashing at my face over and over for a good time now.
if you asked me if tremulous and the players are in ‘good hands’ with enneract - the answer would be No.
Also Sparky’s famous
You are being deceived.
I appreciate their attempts at deciding what my personal judgement should be for me, but really I’m not exactly into following bullshit blindly.
Context?
Telling him that the multiprotocol-code you’ve made before their release was an actual thing. He got pissed at me for implying that it wasn’t thanks to him. In reality, the bastard should’ve been thankful to DevHC for actually allowing them to use the multiprotocol code he made prior to GrangerHub’s existence; and also for giving him those day-long lectures about C to get him back into coding.
Very nice (unconsulted, slapped-on bullshit!) move of him to block DevHC out of the repo, by the way.
(for those who are unaware) GrangerHub took Devhc’s code and then booted him from their repo, development team and admin team.
Oh yes forgot to mention they’re accusing him of leaking their code when in fact, he only shared his SELF-MADE, multiprotocol code to Zittrig.
Removed
See you again soon (again)
No, however Oblivion did attack Zittrig, and from my point of view, resigned from GrangerHub to cancel out any affiliation accusations the moment he was found out.
Literally all Zittrig has done was host a server, and suddenly they’re Hitlers. Why?1
1: Rhetorical question.
The irony here is thick and the fake outrage is astonishing.1
So, this in fact shows that @DevHC didn’t contribute anything (code-wise) to GrangerHub, since he made this code ~2 years prior.
Thanks, GNU GPL!
DevHC had access to the repo (until recently) where he continued… to DO Nothing! 2
In case you forgot, he took a VACATION™ because he was butthurt that I wouldn’t PERMANENTLY BAN Cerk for name trolling.
Which is hilarious, since it was DevHC’s wish for the code to be TOP SECRET™ in the first place, to keep it away from @enneract, especially.
And so therefor @enneract (already having his own multiprotocol code) trolling @dGr8LookinSparky about not having that code released, under the pretense that he was somehow being screwed out of something by not having access to it - was not only inappropriate, it only served to harass and delay our development progress, which makes it pretty douchey thing to do.
@avarthar desiring to leave; after pointing out the garbage attitudes from people here (ex-mods, devs of competing projects), and being met with more garbage only validates the intention of his post here.