Flagging should be like a voting system. If enough people flag it, then it gets hidden. It’s not our faults people get butthurt over small issues.
i got a final warning in pms about useless off topic post. by hendrich and other L9s and result in ban if they continue to flag me
Preface: This is regarding a PM I sent to Spamo 9 days ago regarding his recent behavior. He didn’t respond, until now, right here. There is a concern of possible derailment, unless he makes it relevant to this thread.
@Spamo How exactly is this relevant to this thread? Do you believe this PM was an example of censorship on GrangerHub? I’m genuinely curious in your response.
You mean this “final” warning? :
Actually explain what is bothering you and how it relates to the thread you are posting in. Otherwise, ignoring this PM and continuing this behavior will lead to a formal warning (and eventually) formal action.
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Because spamming ‘queer’ as the only word in your messages is censorship.
On the other hand, Menace’s entire post was hidden because of 1 word.
:))
Git censored scumbag
[details=Off-topic about the definition of Spam (relevant to the flagging system)]
Spam’s definition in the flagging system & dictionaries is incomplete, interestingly enough; spam is most of the time referred to by the majority of the people on the internet as sending many messages with the same content (usually with useless content) (which applies to scam/ads e-mails, but doesn’t directly mean it is going to be of an advertising nature at all), for example in tremulous cvars spam is sending the same identical message over and over and differs from flood which is sending non-identical messages over and over, and in e-mails spam is just unwanted shit or scam you get from some guy in Africa, commercials, your stepmother trying to figure out how her inbox works, or some retard that figured out what your address was and is trying to piss you off.
Now I’m unsure whether people are misusing the term, but since it is a term that the internet gave birth to (assumedly), and the majority of people are using it (probably evolved the term), I’m more inclined to say that it is the actual definition in the dictionaries that has to change.
Spamo’s queeer posts are both spam, inappropriate and off-topic by (proper) definition.[/details]
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Actually because of one sentence as I understand it, and the poster could easily fix such a hidden post by removing the portion of the post that was determined to be flag worthy. (as a side note, regarding that particular post, I was neither the one who flagged it, nor the moderator who took action regarding that flag).
Something else to consider, why should it be acceptable for someone to repeatedly grief a/some targeted individuals simply because they they bury such repeated griefing in otherwise appropriate content? I’m not going to name names, but more than one person has done this on these forums with more than one person being targets of such griefing.
Anyways, wid epreead griefing, shit flinging, hostility, excessive drama, and overall toxicity not only is counterproductive, but it drowns out and distracts from constructive activity, it drives both contributors (i.e. developers, mappers, admins, server owners, etc) and ordinary players away, and it tends to lead to the destruction of projects. We intend to go in a different direction with GrangerHub. People are allowed to voice their opinions regarding, critique, and disagree with ideas, but civility is a must.
You guys try way too hard.
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@Spamo Is that seriously your response? Not only did you fail to respond to a moderated PM for 9 days, but you completely ignore the questions presented to you (to bring a discussion of your incident in relation to censorship), fail to explain it’s relation to the thread and present a back-handed statement instead?
Spamo, recent posts (as found in your profile history) such as:
dear lord…
My god people still replying here. No one even scrims anyways
It’s not even a continuous problem either. This thread is nothing but a
pointless drama to create. For those of you who act like your life time
career is to be an admin on grangerpub/club as if you get payed to do
so. Fuck off with these insane retarded rule book.
Ohhhhh fuck off you people no need to get butt hurt or turn this situation into some 2 year court case.
queer.
queer.
queer.
queer. (Yes, this was actually spammed FOUR times.)
These could have been re-worded to make a point (Don’t be so srs guys, because of [REASONS]), but instead they are in violation of the Community Guidelines, specifically:
- Name-calling.
- Ad hominem attacks.
- Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content.
- Knee-jerk contradiction.
- Don’t post no-content replies.
Would this be considered censorship if there are attempts by moderators to repress such speech? I’m inclined to agree, but not because of your ideas, but in the form that you decided to present them in. As exemplified above, there are limits to the speech you can perform on GrangerHub because this forum is considered (by the guidelines) to be a:
shared community resource
For anything Tremulous. Not a free-for-all FREEDOM OF SPEECH™ blog hivemind. Posts like these are the reason why the flagging system is in place, even despite the flaws @Menace13 has shown.
You are correct. The far easier decision (on pretty much every other hugbox circle-jerk forum) was to simply throw the banhammer down. I’ll take your statement to heart from now on.
Finally, I’d like to mention that, because you failed to link this incident to this thread, I don’t see how this particular topic can be relevant any longer. Don’t be surprised if you are disregarded.
I woke up this morning to find SEVEN of my posts flagged and removed “by the community”. A quick inspection finds out they were flagged by a single admin and removed without discussion. Three guesses who!
I think you mean: “SEVEN of my copypasted spam / shitposts”
WRONG. That’s why it says:
Stalin! Mao! Hitler!
They did not breach the community guidelines or forum rules. You’re censoring my voice because you personally don’t like it.
I already had a discussion with you about that very post and you said it was fine. Posting once in a closed thread was an accident.
Having high forum activity isn’t spamming, I didn’t post the same thing over and over again in the same post. My post was relevant to every topic I posted in.
CronSpark.co One admin, both blind and ignorant to change.
Even hitler and stalin wouldn’t hide my posts.
And repeatedly spamming posts is not legitimate ‘high forum activity’. Changing a couple words doesn’t mean it’s not the:
WRONG - I said nobody flagged the post that you are talking about, and it wasn’t targeting any individual - that doesn’t mean “it’s fine”. YOU flagged the post in-question for Pete’s sake, so WHY would you think it’s okay to copypaste it elsewhere in SEVEN different places and not get flagged?
I’m certainly not blinded by, nor ignorant about; all of the issues that other Tremulous-centric communities have had. And this is the reason we do things differently here.
A mod flagged the post. Instead of hiding it myself I opened discussion with you about why it hadn’t been hidden yet.
Hi @romdos @Ckit I’d like to say:
as shown in the Community Guidelines that;
[quote]Be Agreeable, Even When You Disagree
You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. That’s fine. But, remember to criticize ideas, not people. Please avoid:
Name-calling.
Ad hominem attacks.
Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content.
Knee-jerk contradiction.[/quote]
[quote]Your Participation Counts
The conversations we have here set the tone for everyone. Help us influence the future of this community by choosing to engage in discussions that make this forum an interesting place to be — and avoiding those that do not.[/quote]
I’m sure forum moderators going around and saying a few harsh words on multiple posts isn’t shining light on any of the rules listed above.
I don’t think any of these posts show that a forum moderator is influential in showing that GrangerHub is a good place, not a mass trolly spammy forum place.
[quote]Always Be Civil
Nothing sabotages a healthy conversation like rudeness:
Be civil. Don’t post anything that a reasonable person would consider offensive, abusive, or hate speech.
Keep it clean. Don’t post anything obscene or sexually explicit.
Respect each other. Don’t harass or grief anyone, impersonate people, or expose their private information.
Respect our forum. Don’t post spam or otherwise vandalize the forum.
These are not concrete terms with precise definitions — avoid even the appearance of any of these things. If you’re unsure, ask yourself how you would feel if your post was featured on the front page of the New York Times.
This is a public forum, and search engines index these discussions. Keep the language, links, and images safe for family and friends.[/quote] As shown here it looks like any of the posts we are talking about aren’t following this guide as neatly.
[quote]If You See a Problem, Flag It
Moderators have special authority; they are responsible for this forum. But so are you. With your help, moderators can be community facilitators, not just janitors or police.
When you see bad behavior, don’t reply. It encourages the bad behavior by acknowledging it, consumes your energy, and wastes everyone’s time. Just flag it. If enough flags accrue, action will be taken, either automatically or by moderator intervention.
In order to maintain our community, moderators reserve the right to remove any content and any user account for any reason at any time. Moderators do not preview new posts in any way; the moderators and site operators take no responsibility for any content posted by the community.[/quote]
Are you truly sure this is just GrangerHub trying to censor everything? Perhaps GrangerHub is trying to keep a squeaky clean moral. Even if you wanted to voice your opinion shouldn’t it be done in a more civil manner? Screaming, bad talk, etc will only make both you and the responder annoyed. Which leads to all this aggression.
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I agree. That post is a quote from a specific individual. When I questioned cron why a post that contained that quote hadn’t been hidden yet, he said there was no problem with the post. He said it was ontopic and did not breach community guidelines. I disagreed with that. To show him how much damage that type of behaviour can cause, I replicated it. My posts were removed immediately, I was bumped down to trust level 2, and my moderator privileges were revoked.
Not everything. They are trying to censor things they dislike because this is their safe place. [quote=“Helper_Bot, post:28, topic:2573”]
Even if you wanted to voice your opinion shouldn’t it be done in a more civil manner?
[/quote]
It was. Privately.
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It wasn’t ignored. We have zero obligation to discuss moderation and forum administration matters here.
yeah, probably a considerable effort was spent on taking huge shits from the highest levels, during the intermissions of midnight ignorance parties.
Don’t confuse forum moderation with censorship.
That is true, but I feel in this instance It may be beneficial to put some context to the situation so that it isn’t misunderstood and blown out of proportion.
@Ckit had an issue with another user’s post, he felt that user’s post was inappropriate. But instead of flagging that user’s post, he decided to personally attack that user in a reply. Ckit’s post was then flagged, and he was notified what he would need to change (remove the personal attack) in order for his post to be unhidden. But he took offense to this, but did edit that post, and his post was unhidden.
Instead of civilly discussing/arguing the issue of the post he took offense from to help us come to a determination, Ckit wanted to “prove a point,” that posts like that user’s post are inappropriate, and should be hidden (which he did flag that user’s post so that it was hidden, but said that flag was an accident), by intentionally spamming crap posts (based on that user’s post out of context) that he felt would be detrimental to forum discussions. @Ckit said that flagging that user’s post was not worth his time, but apparently attempting to vandalize the forums instead to “prove a point” that a post should be hidden (that he already hid accidentally?) was worth his time.
Needless to say, this is not the kind of behavior that we would expect from a forum moderator, and vandalizing the forums is not the kind of behavior that we would expect from members of these forums. So as a result, Ckit’s posts were flagged as spam, and he is no longer a moderator on these forums.
The bottom line is that GrangerHub’s forums have specific purposes (support, develop, and advance the Tremulous community and game), and we have community guidelines and rules to help achieve those purposes. It is acceptable, beneficial, and encouraged to disagree/debate, constructively criticize, and voice differing opinions/concerns. But please do so in a civil way as indicated by the community guidelines.
Things like vandalism to the forums, personally attacking other forum members, greifing/harassing other forum members, flaming, and derailing topics are detrimental to the purposes of these forums, and will result in appropriate moderation actions. If some people do not like that we take moderation action against such harmful behavior, I’m sure they can find other forums that tolerate such behavior. These forums are for those who want to have fun participating civilly in achieving cool things, and these forums are moderated for that reason.
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Both posts should have been flagged, I did not take offence.
Again, I did not take offence. I civilly discussed it with cron and yourself. You (in my opinion) wrongly determined the post in question was acceptable. Myself, Hendrich and the other individual who flagged it did not. To help show you the error of your ways I replicated the post in multiple different analogies/scenarios/threads.
The post was crap, it wasn’t spam. Posting a similar sentence (which according to cron is ontopic) in 6 different threads isn’t spamming. [quote=“dGr8LookinSparky, post:33, topic:2573”]
but apparently attempting to vandalize the forums instead to “prove a point” that a post should be hidden (that he already hid accidentally?) was worth his time.
[/quote]
Proving my point is worth my time. Yes.
This is off topic, according to cron that post didn’t apply to any of those things annyways.
My posts being flagged is straight up censorship, you are deleting what you don’t want to see. (either that or cron is a massive hypocrite)
Flags don’t delete posts, flags hide posts until edited.
Like I’ve stated previously in this thread:
Moderation != censorship. QED.
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