Hackers

[blowFish]

@javateciava

Not true. Because, we can start banning all the users with 100% of targets hit. This is really simple. I can code it. We don’t need that this code work in tremulous we can run it out form the game with a tracker (we can grab this in the old tremulous community site), it’s the easiest way.
We can work with the speed of reaction parameters. = no more punchbots coz they have 0 reaction time and tiggerbots also. You can make huge progress with very little effort if we start to track players.
Online there are lots of tremulous trackers. Just copy the code and paste it. Then we collect data and the work is all done. Nothing impossible.

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Not true. Because, we can start banning all the users with 100% of targets hit. This is really simple.

No, your wrong.

We can work with the speed of reaction parameters. = no more punchbots

What is a punchbot?

Online there are lots of tremulous trackers

Then we collect data and the work is all done.

no

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" Just copy the code and paste it "

Hilariously offensive

[Blizz]

Also, if a player x plays against a player y, where x is less good than y by stats (and hours played), and after 3/4 matches we see that he’s doing better than him, we could start to investigate.

[javateciava]

@blowFish

No, your wrong.

Explain please. What I’m missing?

@blowFish

What is a punchbot?

It’s a Goon hack, fast charge of pounch, auto aim, and vision trought walls.

@blowFish

Online there are lots of tremulous trackers
Then we collect data and the work is all done.

no

" Just copy the code and paste it "

Hilariously offensive

Hem? Have you ever investigate in the old tremulous features/code? Well, I did it and I found a tracker (almost two years ago): I’m talking about the really old mercenaries guild tracker. It worked on Triplex server ~ 2006 (I’m not sure about this)
I have to upload it here?

@enneract

I don’t catch cheaters very often because they’re either very obvious and get banned by admins immediately, or they hide their hacking well (so your statistical method won’t notice them either).

I would like to know the number.

@enneract

Interesting, I was just about to say the same thing. You said you’ve already implemented a similar system, so prove all skeptics wrong and demonstrate a Tremulous proof-of-concept.

Are you challenging me to write the code?

[enneract]

Yes, I am.

I think you have no idea what you’re talking about. I can’t imagine a coherent and effective anti-cheat system based on your posts, but since you said it was easy and you had already implemented something similar, I think you should just write a proof-of-concept. You can’t bullshit a computer with vague statements.

[DevHC]

@javateciava

repubblica.it wrote it, is the italian version of BBC.

any english reference ?

@DevHC

@javateciava

with few changes we can use it.

how ? i bet that u’re clueless about the technical details of the workings and applicability of the said „solution”.

fide.com use it! FIDE is the world chess federation.

yes, u really do appear to be clueless.

we can start banning all the users with 100% of targets hit.

• a lot of users have a 100% hit ratio in their first few shots. eg., join a team, start rifling a big fat tyrant that is rushing the human base. such a value is sometimes carried to the end of a game, when a player joins a team near the end of the game (eg. the tyrant kills the shooter, and the rest of the human base gets overrun too).
• no aimbot has a 100% hit ratio over long games.

This is really simple. I can code it.

do it ! write pseudo-code¹ and post it. then i will tell u whether u’re on to something.

¹ to be obviously computable and well-defined

pro tip: u don’t even have a design yet.

we can run it out[side] the game with a tracker (we can grab this in the old tremulous community site), it’s the easiest way.
We can work with the speed of reaction parameters.

i’ve heard of no tracker that is able to collect „speed of reaction parameters”.

coz they have 0 reaction time and tiggerbots also.

• humans also often have instances of „0” reaction times, because of the often-used „aim and shoot” manoeuvre, but also eg. when MDing a dretch that is flying into the crosshairs (ie. wait for the dretch to jump, shoot just before it lands). such instances may be found to be significant in an average, when a player joins a team near the end of the game.
• triggerbots do not necessarily result in statistical outliers in average reaction times, as triggerbots r not uncontrollably active.

You can make huge progress with very little effort if we start to track players.
[…] we collect data and the work is all done.

no, simply tracking does not imply any real progress.

Online there are lots of tremulous trackers. Just copy the code and paste it.

again, what data points do these trackers collect ?

@javateciava

[The anti-cheat system would] still be an improvement.

not necessarily. a bad system that makes automatic decisions can make bad decisions. however, even if a system is „bad”, one would think that it’s good to have it as an automatic suspicion maker (with humans to make confirmation analysis by hand). BUTT, don’t underestimate that humans can be bad too: some would take the proposed suspicions as fallback advice, resulting in them being persuaded to make, again, bad decisions.

[javateciava]

@DevHC

a lot of users have a 100% hit ratio in their first few shots. eg., join a team, start rifling a big fat tyrant that is rushing the human base. such a value is sometimes carried to the end of a game, when a player joins a team near the end of the game (eg. the tyrant kills the shooter, and the rest of the human base gets overrun too).
no aimbot has a 100% hit ratio over long games.

Ok, it’s true, I changed my mind. A anticheating software is not what we look for.
But collecting the data of the results of the various players would give us the material to assume who is cheating.

@DevHC

again, what data points do these trackers collect ?

Again, trackers collect the stats of each player: Kills, time alive, time played, accuracy, bleed, deaths, built structures, destroyed structures, and sometime (in few QVM) the dmg done.

@DevHC

no, simply tracking does not imply any real progress.

Well, with these data we can see if a player has “some fallen in its statistics”. If this happens we can start to investigate. Coz none can keep a bot always active.

This is the tracker that I found: mydropbox/tracker

[blowFish]

@DevHC

triggerbots do not necessarily result in statistical outliers in average reaction times, as triggerbots r not uncontrollably active

I do believe that trigger bots (pre-existing ones anyway) have very identifiable network behavior.

[DevHC]

@blowFish

I do believe that trigger bots (pre-existing ones anyway) have very identifiable network behavior.

now that is weird, because triggerbots by definition shouldn’t operate on the network subsystem directly, in fact they should only change whether the +attack key is down for the engine.

[Rinspeed]

Guys. Why are you worrying about cheaters? I mean this game barely has players. Kinda everybody knows each other. If somebody is cheating doesnt take too much time to figure it out.

Why are you trying to make your life harder?

Actually reading the forum and so much crying on it made me sad.

[blowFish]

I agree with you, but some of us were click baited in (“Hackers”), some of us had previous invest interests in with bot development/use, I responded initially just because I someone on the internet was wrong.

I’ve no interests in solving a problem that I do not exist. Though, If someone seriously wants to do these works (stats, analysis, bot detection) I don’t want to discourage them from trying.

[javateciava]

@blowFish

I responded initially just because I someone on the internet was wrong

Hem? do you mean this? [quote=“blowFish, post:43, topic:1768”]
Online there are lots of tremulous trackers
Then we collect data and the work is all done.

no

" Just copy the code and paste it "

Hilariously offensive
[/quote]

As I said, it was really easy find it just use better the search tools

@javateciava

This is the tracker that I found: mydropbox/tracker

@Rinspeed

Guys. Why are you worrying about cheaters?

Coz they ruined this game discouraging new players. What do you think would do a new player who just tries to get out of the base and he’s getting killed in 0.3sec by a mdwhore whatever he does?
Atleast I’m trying to do something for help the game, we can say the same thing for you? (@Rinspeed)

[enneract]

@javateciava

[Cheaters] ruined this game discouraging new players. What do you think would do a new player who just tries to get out of the base and he’s getting killed in 0.3sec by a mdwhore whatever he does?

Those aren’t cheaters. There simply are players better than you, and the sooner you admit it and stop calling everyone a hacker, the sooner you’ll get better yourself.

[DevHC]

@javateciava

I changed my mind. A anticheating software is not what we look for.

we could do with some form of anti-cheating, but it won’t be trivial to create, and we must be very careful.

But collecting the data of the results of the various players would give us the material to assume who is cheating.
[…]
trackers collect the stats of each player: Kills, time alive, time played, accuracy, bleed, deaths, built structures, destroyed structures, and sometime (in few QVM) the dmg done.

we need more data: namely, all of it, ie., full recordings.

@Rinspeed

Why are you worrying about cheaters? I mean this game barely has players.

because we r worried about the future of the game.

Why are you trying to make your life harder?

because unlike u, we r, more or less, members of the human race, fighting for it.

@blowFish

had previous invest interests in with

I someone

problem that I do not exist.

troll grammar; do not bite.

[Rinspeed]

@javateciava

Coz they ruined this game discouraging new players. What do you think would do a new player who just tries to get out of the base and he’s getting killed in 0.3sec by a mdwhore whatever he does?

You must be new to this game. Dont know how long have you been playing this game but back in the days there were pros and now there are really good players.

@enneract

Those aren’t cheaters. There simply are players better than you, and the sooner you admit it and stop calling everyone a hacker, the sooner you’ll get better yourself.

At this point enneract is right. Just beacuse they are better than you doesnt mean they are cheating.

@javateciava

Atleast I’m trying to do something for help the game, we can say the same thing for you? (@Rinspeed)

Ohh sorry because I kinda gave up trying to interact with kids. I have better things to do. Anyway I play for fun. I dont remember crying on forum because of luci spam or rant or camp. Ofc in game I mention but I dont think the whole game should be changed because there are so many different players.

As far as I saw you were crying madly for change. Lets ban half of the players so you will have the best chance or own server so you can select who you want to play with.

[Spamo]

I was too lazy to read most of this thread but just an FYI @blowFish there have been a few people caught with hacks on the server and a couple seemed to be the thZ from google code

[Ckit]

@Spamo

there have been a few people caught with hacks on the server and a couple seemed to be the thZ from google code

How would you possibly know this?

[DevHC]

@Spamo

[Spamo]

Because they’ve been banned from the server?.. Like forever ago. -R triggerbot. And simply thZ is the easiest hack to use. 10 years of trem. Yes I have used thz before. So what. I’m spamo so I can

[blowFish]

@DevHC

troll grammar; do not bite.

Crap- Sorry, I really need to proofread my shit posts before posting.

I think bot detection & anti-cheating features are a great idea and I do not want to discourage anyone from developing said technology in Tremulous.

[Ckit]

@Spamo

Because they’ve been banned from the server?.. Like forever ago.

Who?