Is camping in Tremulous a problem?

[Menace13]

@Hendrich

Go Tyrant
Go Adv. Dragoon
Feed Play as a class that has a hard time killing Bsuit faggots until you can pick above.

Not everybody goes Bsuit, and some weapons don’t go well with Bsuit. I can Basi many average Bsuits in a 1v1 if they aren’t Chaingun or Luci or Flamer. I know some people who can Mara suits. Hell, normal Dragoon is only slightly worse than Adv. Dragoon and can still kill Bsuits, and even has an easier time flanking humans and avoiding Luci shots due to its smaller size.

@DarkMicrobe

basi arent viable vs s2 humans

pls

I disagree with your phrasing, but I think I understand what you meant to say. Basi and Mara are definitely “viable”, in that they can get kills and go positive in K/D, as proven by many players. However, you would be correct in saying they are both outclassed by Dragoons and Tyrants in almost all situations, and thus there is no reason to go Basi or Mara vs hs2 except if you enjoy playing that alien (as is the case for me with Basi).

@DarkMicrobe

Shotgun is a weapon that has a very low skill floor and a very high skill ceiling

Shotgun has a very low skill floor, but I disagree about the high skill ceiling. Shotgun has a lower skill ceiling than almost every other human weapon. The part of it that has a high skill ceiling is things such as dancing aliens and dodging attacks, but that’s not unique to it and is part of the group of skills that are important to all human weapons.

@Hendrich

I’d argue a good Adv Marauder can fuck shit up if they know when to land their secondary attack.

Adv. Mara zap in Tremulous 1.1 does almost no damage to armored humans. It is only useful against nude humans, which is negligible in an argument about Adv. Mara being shit against hs2 humans. As MaeJong pointed it, Adv. Mara’s primary attack also has massively higher DPS.

@dGr8LookinSparky

Unlike the regular/adv mara of 1.1, the adv mara of gpp is devastating against the human base with its zap, and even pretty effective against groups of humans that are close to each other. The adv mara forces builders to ensure buildables are not too close to each other (and to watch out for “buildable blindspots”), or with just a single adv mara attack a major chunk of a human base/forward or even an entire human forward/base would just be completely destroyed.

Adv. Mara in 1.2 was still largely useless against hs2 humans except for killing the human base, which it did way too well. I was there when Adv. Mara zap was buffed, and it was ridiculously overpowered until they nerfed it, and it should have been nerfed again.

@Hendrich

Remember, chained lightning is atleast 41 damage

Even if you are correct, it also requires you to be close enough to them (and alive) for the full 1.5 seconds the zap lasts for.

@Hendrich

I wouldn’t go as far as to recommend avoid using it outright.

I would.

@Hendrich

I would have preferred a buff to how chaining worked beyond what 1.2 did so it would be better as a anti-structure skill (linking this idea back to the OP).

Adv. Mara was already way too good at killing bases in GPP, and it could single-handedly take out an entire human base on its own given 20 seconds of no humans in base. You want that to be BETTER?

@MaeJong

Just to clarify - adv mara claw is just a little bit less efficient than goon bite globally (it’s still good), but that’s because it’s weak if you don’t headbite or if you fight suits.

#define LEVEL2_CLAW_DMG ADM(40) #define LEVEL2_CLAW_RANGE 96.0f #define LEVEL2_CLAW_REPEAT 500 #define LEVEL2_CLAW_U_REPEAT 400

Normal Mara DPS in terms of headshots vs. a helmeted human: 48
Adv. Mara DPS in terms of headshots vs. a helmeted human: 60
Claw range: 96 Quake units

#define LEVEL3_CLAW_DMG ADM(80) #define LEVEL3_CLAW_RANGE 96.0f #define LEVEL3_CLAW_REPEAT 700 #define LEVEL3_CLAW_U_REPEAT 600

Normal Dragoon DPS in terms of headshots vs. a helmeted human: 68.571
Adv. Dragoon DPS in terms of headshots vs. a helmeted human: 80
Chomp range: 96 Quake units

For reference, Tyrant DPS in terms of headshots vs. a helmeted human is also 80, and Tyrant claw range is 128 Quake units.

Normal Mara only has 70% of the DPS of Normal Dragoon even if both hit the head for every single attack. Adv. Mara only has 75% of the DPS of Adv. Dragoon even if both hit the head for every single attack. That’s not just “a little bit” less efficient, especially when you consider that, since it hits more frequently, it will take even longer on average to kill a human. Starting from when the Normal Mara first swings at a human, it takes 2.5 seconds of holding down MOUSE1 to kill him (5 headshots for 24 damage each). Starting from when the Normal Dragoon first swings at a human, it takes 1.4 seconds of holding down MOUSE1 to kill him (3 headshots for 48 damage each). It takes 78.57% longer to kill a human as Normal Mara than as Normal Dragoon under these conditions. That’s a huge problem. Doing the same calculations for Adv. Mara and Adv. Dragoon would show that Adv. Mara takes 66.67% longer to kill a human than the Adv. Dragoon would take. Mara isn’t even close to as good as Dragoon in any way.

[MaeJong]

@Menace13

Mara isn’t even close to as good as Dragoon in any way.

If you average out with missed hits, it is somewhat equivalent depending on what you fight against… Mara’s big advantage is the mobility/dodge, the goon has others. But yes if we are talking about average players, there is NO point playing adv mara in S2/S3 besides for the shits n giggles.

But as I’ve suggested, the zap should be modded so it’s usable to increase the mara’s dps on top of the main attack rather than having to choose (ex. the electric projectile thing)… Or be a support ability that remains useful/powerful enough to be used in S3 commonly. (Either way, if it could play on the mara’s great mobility it could turn out to be amazingly fun to play.)