Camping is a part of 1.1 gameplay (killwhore).
On 1.2 we played to destroy ennemy base. Score was different and gameplay too, but that was less campy.
Killwhoring is only because people chose to play like this. Itâs not the best and most efficient way of playing the game, which should be to focus on taking the base out (teamwork/organized rushes). The thing is with the pollacks weâve got lately it is apparently hard to do so. Havenât noticed this the entire week though, the plackies were very responsive and followed even basic orders well. (âŚ). Deduce what you want of this.
I believe the camping is due to the impressive amount of rants sitting by human baseâs corners⌠The game seems rather smooth and enjoyable up to S3.
Becuz lucis spamming in every possible tunnel and chain + bs vs normal goons and dretches are pro -.-
Why not try to change that then ? I agree itâs a real problem but you canât change the mind of this nigga (truck this is clearly for you buddy).
Is it possible to give some damage for a player Who is not enought moving ?
Like a luci spammer lose 5hp if he stays too long sit in the base. And you increase the damage if he still donât move his ass.
More like we should try making a map that disables battlesuits and tyrants and see if the entire problem is indeed this assfuckery.
I remember having KoR games restricted to S2 and that was fun as fuck.
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I do think that score has somewhat of a roll in this, that is if the score doesnât indicate all and only the quality in game play behavior that helps you win the game, players would be doing things to get a higher score that doesnât help win the game and could even get in the way of the game play.
The scoring system of gpp was a bit better than the scoring system of 1.1, in that it was based on the damage done to players and buildables killed, and players werenât interested in how many kills they got, but were interested in assisting in kills and especially interested in killing buildables, but in my opinion, that scoring system was still not where it should be for Tremulous game play.
With that said, there was still a lot of camping in gpp and in the popular gpp mods, for some of the same. some similar, and some different reasons as in 1.1.
A problem in many of the popular gpp mods was with super powerful bases/classes/weapons done in a way that resulted in the progress of both teams stalling.
rants are like real life spiders: Fucking disgusting but a necessity.
You canât beat s3 camping humans without rants, but then again humans wouldnât have to camp without rants, unless they were in UBA. And thereâs the problem: UBA vriess and gorman make the game boring and would be more annoying if rants didnât exist. Rinspeed and truck make the game boring with rants.
Play humans â get pissed off at rantwhores
Play aliens â get pissed off at humans that are camping for stage 4
@dGr8LookinSparky
gpp had a shit load of camp as well, score system is w/e.
@Ghost
Might just be rose tinted glasses because gpp was pretty comparable with 1.1 in terms of camping, just that on gpp aliens camped outside doors spamming mouse2 instead of mouse1 because retarded devs changed rant and goon combat.
There was a lot ubp on gpp so player camped at different area bot only on the main base. That was more easy to âfightâ
That is what I said. The scoring system is a minor factor in camping (but still a factor), but there seems to be fundamental problems in Tremulous game play common to 1.1 and gpp that leads to camping (as well as the different game plays having their own unique issues that are factors in camping).
1.2 was less campy because a well-built base could actually defend itself from an alien or two.
When humans canât get 3 feet from their base before being raped by rants, they usually will stop trying to go those 3 feet.
OPINIONS INCOMING:
S2 aliens is alot more fun to play as than S3 aliens. My problem with S3 on the alien side is that I feel compelled to pick one of three choices:
-
Go Tyrant
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Go Adv. Dragoon
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Feed Play as a class that has a hard time killing Bsuit faggots until you can pick above.
Based on your skill level this isnât always the case, but it seems like the S3 meta had always heavily favored Tyrant/AdvGoon to take down key structures or secure kills. S2 aliens is where you can safely pick Adv. Marauder or even Adv. Basilisk because you donât have to deal with Bsuits tanking up your stopping power.
Compare that to humans where I see motherfuckers stay competitive with a fucking shotgun they got since S1 and only moved from larmour 
helm bsuit as needed. Shotgun, Lasgun, Mdriver, Chaingun, Pulse Rifle (and now Flamer on the Test Server) are all options that are effective to use, even in S3. Just remember to atleast buy a helmet so you donât get 1shot.
TL;DR The current way stages work in Tremulous limits alien playstyles far less favorably compared to humans which is just one of many reasons why Tyrants/Adv. Goons are picked so heavily (which is a factor in how camping is a problem in Tremulous).
mara and basi arent viable vs s2 humans, while your point about some things always getting played and others getting ignored is true, it isnât a problem for just one side / stage.
You can use any alien and be succesful vs s1 humans but at hs2 youâre going to get fucking destroyed if youâre not a dretch (relatively destroyed in this case) or a goon, although iâm certain there are maras out there than can hand my ass to me when i use shotgun, theyâre usually just throwing away 2 evos (and if you have 3 for goon but decide to go adv mara thatâs just a bad decision)
I like mara a lot more in hs3 than in hs2 because lucis generally have a harder time vs maras than shotguns would have and the chainsuits donât have a helmet so you can get some damage in without getting spotted and leave the dirty work for a rant.
MD and Lgun are both great vs anything non goon+ but as weâve already established almost anything works vs those lower classes as well, so why pick those weapons aside from killwhoring? Humans always camp thanks to rants, and therefore anything non adv goon or tyrant canât kill structures and usually struggle immensely to get kills as well, hence why they donât get played.
Pulse could be a very strong weapon but like mara its a very niche thing to use and it struggles vs dretches, which youâre going to see a lot of, and pub games teamwork is ⌠lacking.
Shotgun is a weapon that has a very low skill floor and a very high skill ceiling, which is why you see everyone and their nans using it. Low cost, high damage output and viable against anything, especially in a group, whatâs not to love?
If you feel like youâre compelled to those first 2 choices: rant and adv.goon, at any time, then youâre not reading the game right. Iâd say itâs usually pretty obvious: Humans camping in h base = adv goon
Humans in alien base = rant.
If everyone went adv goon instead of tyrant the world would be a better place for both aliens and humans.
Vanilla Maurader or Adv? Because Iâd argue a good Adv Marauder can fuck shit up if they know when to land their secondary attack. Their ability to use walljump as escape/initiation is underrated, IMO.
It seems like these two statements are contradicting each other, because Iâm having trouble comprehending your point. Being compelled to pick either Tyrant or AdvGoon (at any time) is not reading the game right, but its still obvious to choose them based on where the humans are at?
Iâm just thinking about it. At S3, would I pick anything except AdvGoon and Tyrant (unless I didnât have the evos)? I might go Adv Marauder if structures are too close together or I can rec snipe, but only if we had a tyrant or two running around already.
I hope youâre kidding. It is a net loss of damage on anything, even nakeds, compared to main attack. It leaves you vulnerable for longer than bites aswell⌠would just recommend to avoid using it at all unless youâre fighting S1 pollacks or trying to do damages to multiple rets to make the builders go crazy (or the bottom 2 rets on atcs).
Unlike the regular/adv mara of 1.1, the adv mara of gpp is devastating against the human base with its zap, and even pretty effective against groups of humans that are close to each other. The adv mara forces builders to ensure buildables are not too close to each other (and to watch out for âbuildable blindspotsâ), or with just a single adv mara attack a major chunk of a human base/forward or even an entire human forward/base would just be completely destroyed.
Swirl Mode on the test7341 server still has mostly the gpp adv mara, but if anything it is a bit op and requires adjustments (for starters, perhaps reduce the damage of the secondary zap bolts, and maybe even change how the mara zap works).
If the basilisk and the marauder are going to remain as fragile as they are (or even buffed honestly) there are two options that could make players use it a lot more in S2/S3:
Damage buff of any kind (includes ease of usage) OR accentuating the supportive aspect they bring to the game (that is true for basilisk, marauder not so much⌠itâs just a weaker, different kind of dragoon based on dodges and jump tricks atm).
Basilisk health regen bonus in GPP was a decent idea, why not push it further and make the basi able to give poison, for example? KoR allowed basis to be invisible for the duration you had the effect of the booster, could be something similar, a camouflage ability (similar to some squids or chameleons) when it is immobile, there are many things that could be amazing combined with the basiâs ability to grabâŚ
Make the marauderâs zap something viable and support-ish, you could make it something like Iâve proposed where you just throw a sticky projectile somewhere and it makes an electric flux inbetween the marauder and the projectile (with limited range), so they can also still use claws and profit of the damage boost of the modded zap (implying they position themselves well), or, something that hinders human movement, or flashes the humanâs sight, idk.
Iâll stop derailing the thread. Gâday.
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Iâm not. It is a net loss in terms of DPS, in exchange for Crowd-Control. Seeing 3 ADV Marauders surf into confrontation, bite spam 4 shotties then finish them all off with a synchronized chained-lightning attack was a sight to behold (6 years ago). Remember, chained lightning is atleast 41 damage (across 3 targets in 1.1 AFAIK), its excellent for cleanup.
I wonât lie, 1.1 zap had a ridiculous learning curve (not to mention generally SHIT) and even I couldnât git gud like the best, but I wouldnât go as far as to recommend avoid using it outright.
I agree with this sentiment. Even though zap got alot better in 1.2, not everything needs a DMG buff as if every class is meant to score kills.
I would have preferred a buff to how chaining worked beyond what 1.2 did so it would be better as a anti-structure skill (linking this idea back to the OP).
I disagree, considering how open-ended this topic can get. Sure, this is all a digression, however this discussion about camping in tremulous shifted to the roles of the Basilisk and the Marauder because (atleast in 1.1) they werenât nearly as effective or scaled as well as they could be (which can be a factor on why camping was the way it was). Iâd argue its relevant as long as we keep our points with this in mind.
[quote=âHendrich, post:58, topic:91â]
Iâm not. It is a net loss in terms of DPS, in exchange for Crowd-Control. Seeing 3 ADV Marauders surf into confrontation, bite spam 4 shotties then finish them all off with a synchronized chained-lightning attack was a sight to behold (6 years ago). Remember, chained lightning is atleast 41 damage (across 3 targets in 1.1 AFAIK), its excellent for cleanup.[/quote]
First target 41, second 26, third 13⌠over the entire duration of the zap, implying it doesnât bug out (it does sometimes) or doesnât break out of range⌠You can deal like, three times more damage with claws in the meantime. On top of that you can have close to anything in the game in groups of 3 be a LOT stronger generally, but the mara zap compared to those is ridiculously weak (lasguns â 135 constant DPS, rifles â 450dmgs in 2.7secs, luci just spam and covers every area in a hall, psaws, shotties (16X dmgs instantly hello), basilisks grabfest, dragoons instakill,âŚ).
So yes, seeing as it is overclassed by almost everything (not only the maraâs bite) and hard to use/useless to even bother using, Iâd recommend avoiding it 99.9% of the time.
Sure if youâre coordinated and in very specific situations (which yours is), if youâre alone youâre not going to do anything with your zap. (Not to mention the impressive amount of persons who can mara even half decently nowadays: < 5)
The point is to make the mara zap usable by almost everyone, in stages where the marauder is often simply not played or overclassed by everything by giving it secondary usages (not just increase DPS/range where atm it is outclassed by like 95% of the things in the game and where the mechanism doesnât fit higher stages: Try zapping shit when the hall is clogged with rants, adv goons and bsuits⌠good luck. Buffing just those values (as seen on GPP) or sparkyâs idea of an automatic targetting zap system (please, no) turns it into something completely retarded and pretty boring to use).
Uhh this post is messy but I donât give a shit, all of my points are there even if not ordered properly
i c, it is indeed too niche, buggy, underpowered and should have been properly patched a long time ago
now that i think about it, despite how impressive it was, they should of just went as 3 dragoons.
I believe that is a valid point. the design of the aliens should compliment each otherâs shortcomings and benefit the team beyond increasing oneâs K/D ratio, instead of the current (stale, decade-long) meta
wouldnât it be nice if something about this was tweaked on say, a server designed for testing tweaks
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Just to clarify - adv mara claw is just a little bit less efficient than goon bite globally (itâs still good), but thatâs because itâs weak if you donât headbite or if you fight suits. They shouldâve probably used claws to kill them, but given they probably had less than 20 hps each it was usable⌠instead of waiting for half (or more) the zap time to be over (~20hps), one headbite wouldâve finished a human instantly, reducing the general damage the group of humans couldâve been able to output (given the zap didnât shut them down instantly, eg more risk, eg outclassed by claw in 99% of the situations you get into in pub games). Zap can be like, somewhat viable if a human runs into their base and you try to get a cheap chase kill on himâŚ
Doesnât mean they shouldâve gooned all along, a marauder played well is just a different, funnier way to take a dump on S2 humans than gooning. My entire point was that the zap is SHIT, not the mara itself.
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