Here we should list all of the required training needs of a tutorial map. I will keep this post updated as submissions come in. After basics are gathered, we can submit sketches/blueprints/floor-plans (or complete radiant .map or .blend model) of concepts for each “training module”.
Also list any special image textures needed for tutorial text. These should be sparse (only used when something cant be explained in a more intuitive way), and very short and to-the-point.
With each component visualized, we can begin assembling a complete map.
Main objectives:
Train new players how to play
Sharpen skills for current players
Train human movement and shooting
Train alien movement and attacks
Start with training for basic classes
Secondary objectives:
Record demos on the map for viewing by any new players.
Have map be playable as a regular combat map.
Have map be a “mission” style map.
Use scripting to control player upgrade/evolution.
Training for all classes.
Human’s training modules:
Run n’ Jump
Shooting things
Alien’s training modules:
Dretch wall-walk and bites
Basilisk grab n gas
Marauder bounce, slashes and zap
Goon pounces, chomping and sniping
Tyrant slash and trample
Tyrant skate park
Both teams:
Building tutorial:
##List all the things each will do!
List item
Learn angles/limits/ranges/distance/capabilities of each building.
Yea, make a building tutorial. It may help a lot. Don’t forget to mention the angles, the distances and suchs that each building can be used at. (arm, ret, tesla, rc [zapping ;)], Tubes, Hives, Om, and suchs…)
Also, if you want to use your template textures, give it a try It could end really good.
You could also make use of AI so you spawn in npc’s. You could then make a place to show where to aim at and suchs on each aliens/humans with each evolutions/upgrades.
This is an awesome idea.
It leaves me sitting here afraid that I have nothing constructive to add to it lol.
For the humans target shooting part, I thought of using acid tubes (or other alien structures) as targets, if coding bots/NPCs are too much of a job. But instead of being stationary, we put these alien structures on movable platforms. I’m not sure if this can be done since mapping is out of my field of expertise.
Moving buttons or brushes that produce a sound when you hit/activate them. Also to learn people to stop shooting when a teammate goes in front of them, func_pendulums in front of a target.
great idea! i hope you’ll make it. in building tutorial remember about rc jumps
there were training servers with bots (including dodging dretches). also there are bots on F (but very stupid). so maybe it’s possible to find some code on the net.
Adding bots/NPCs is outside the scope of this map project. However, BotsCamp mod or other bot logic could be included with server\client distribution for this.
I don’t believe this is technically possible. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
This map should address all training needs. There should be a lobby that has teleporters to the various dedicated training rooms (along with at least a teleporter at the “beginning” of each room to exit back to the lobby, and an optional teleporter at the end of rooms (where applicable) to exit back to the loby). This has the additional benefit that multiple players can join a single server and work on different kinds of training without needing to change the map.
Perhaps each training room should also have a maximum capacity of players, where once that capacity is met, the teleporter to that room is disabled until the number of players in that room drops below that maximum capacity.
Dying in some rooms should cause you to respawn in the same training room, while dying in other rooms should cause you to respawn in the Loby.
Friendly and enemy fire should be turned off in the loby.
Entrance into rooms meant for a different team from the one you are currently in should cause you to automatically change your team upon entrance.
This project needs to be a combination of the training map and the coding of a training server. There should be training rooms in this map that incorporates bots, but when designing most of the training rooms it needs to be considered if the particular training can be done without bots, and if bots are needed, use as few bots as possible.
Bots should only spawn in their needed rooms when at least one player is present in that room, and the bot(s) should be removed from a given room when there are no longer players present in a given room.
There should also be one or two or a few arena rooms for training that involves “complete matches.”
Not true on all three counts. There are many new Tremulous players, and there will be many more new Tremulous players. Providing a/some proper training maps and a/some proper training server(s) will greatly increase retention of the new players.
Oh really? Can you provide some data that shows an increase in Tremulous players? The Tremulous community has been decreasing for years now, and no matter how much you fantasize about reviving Tremulous, it isn’t happening. The only “new” players are people directly contacted by current players (i.e. Cerkitz got his friend Styx to play Tremulous). Furthermore, you have shown no reason for any of us to have faith in your ability to bring in more players, and have not detailed any kind of plan to bring in new players. Partially because you do not have one, because it is not possible.
Training maps would be useless because most new players don’t even know how to download and run maps for practice. Likewise, making a server with these maps on it would be pointless because there would never be enough players on the server for people to decide to connect to it. As it is, there are almost never more than 40 people online across every server for every version of Tremulous and ever mod. Even when there are that many people online, no more than 10-15% of players are on a server other than GrangerPub or GrangerClub, and they are very rarely spread between the two, usually migrating to whichever has players. If a single scrim can completely empty the only public server people play on, I don’t know how you could possibly believe in your deluded mind that there is any way a training server would receive enough players to actually give them some form of “training” without including bots (which are not any good for training). The skill difference between a new player and an old player in Tremulous is way too drastic after nearly 10 years since 1.1 was released; there is no amount of training vs. bots that could ever allow a new player to reach the level of an old player.
You could obviously go on to claim that if you put all the new players against each other, they will have equal level opponents to play against, but as I have already said, there are nowhere near enough new players to maintain two servers (one with good players and one with shitty players). There never will be again. A training server or a newbie-friendly server is only helpful if there are new players to fill those servers, and there never will be.
No data is needed to recognize that Tremulous gets new players (regardless of how they find Tremulous) . There are new players on GrangerPub very often, you just need to pay attention more (also I’m not talking about existing players aliasing).
Creating a proper training map and a proper training server is part of such a plan to bring in and retain new players (it is easy to bring in new players, one of the major difficulties trem has faced over the years is retaining said new players). Also releasing a new version of trem (consisting of new servers, a new client, and a launcher/updater all of which designed to address many more problems trem has had over the years), launching a new Tremulous community website that sufficiently supports and promotes the Tremulous community and game, are all part of such a plan.
Implementing such a comprehensive plan takes a lot of effort and time, and the greatest results would likely occur after said plan has been fully implemented. However, we have made a lot of progress in terms of bringing that plan’s full implementation closer to completion.
I believe our efforts in improving the Tremulous game experience will yield great results in terms of growing the community, and if that doesn’t happen, we are still having fun working on these projects regardless. A training map and a training server are going to be made, this topic is about how such a training map should be designed.
With that said, the training map (as well as the training server) should be designed so that it can be used for training just one player present on the server, as well as up to 64 players simultaneously. Bots focused in specific scenarios can be very effective for training, but also many specialized training exercises for Tremulous can be performed in the training map without needing bots (nor other players).
lobby, teleporters, auto-switching FF, auto-switching teams, autoselecting respawn location, auto-adjusting number of bots in specific room
over-engineering?
i’ve seen two very nice train servers.
normal gameplay (no bots) but if your kills/death ratio was significantly grater than others you were denied to get some weapon/alien class. perfect server for noobs
all structures were immortal, no building allowed. 1 team of players, 1 team of bots (2 servers for symmetry). number of bots == more less number of players and bots were constantly attacking players. perfect for practice fight and aim
Sound cues (provided the lad has sound accessible on his computer).
Movement speed & Energy Conservation (Tube decrease in movement, blacking out, jumping.)
What not to do in certain situations (<- Broad, but applicable. I.E. rushing into a def as an s1 human instead of waiting for them to come to you. I.E. Flanking when people are obviously in the base)
This assumes too much about having different “rooms”. It’s too early to decide where or how these would be used. Wait until specific requirements are completed and floor-plans/blueprint ideas submitted, and then determine how to assemble the map and then observe what’s happening on it. It’s entirely possible to have multiple training tools in a shared area.
A bot would appear on the map as any other player, no special consideration needs to be given to bots if the map is playable by humans.
These types of things would need new special entities to be coded, to be used by mappers. This probably means Tremulous devs should start a branch in source for adding these, but otherwise is outside the scope of this map thread.
Find out all the requirements before coding this. The job may be best handled through a (map) scripting system, but one that is for general-use, not only applicable to this map.
IMHO aim for design that fulfills the other requirements, yet still can have a floorplan / halls / areas laid out to be played like a regular map. Additionally, any area doors can be closed off / opened up, can have crushing ceilings (or floors), controlled by player-pushed or shootable triggers, controlled by team stage or just be timed.
Bots can be used as part of preset scenarios (to spawn at designated locations with preset player states) , a long with layouts.
New entities don’t necessarily have to be added by the mapper. For example, the nobuild command in multiprotocol slackers defines and saves regions on existing maps where building is disallowed, A similar approach can be done for any other aspect of the game logic. That is not to say that new entities for mappers to use in maps isn’t the way to go.
Ofc, we need to figure out the needs and limitations a good training map would have on a non-training server, but lets not limit our thinking to not think of better possible tools that could accomplish things that current resources can’t. Yes a scripting system would be nice, but everything I suggested can be done with C as well, and I know how to approach the coding for each if needed. But one of the main things I would like to see is a single map that addresses all Tremulous training needs, where different players can choose to train in different aspects without interrupting the types of training chosen by other players.
The idea of a loby and specialized training rooms comes from a reference to a training map on L4D that @MaeJong linked. Mae made a draft for the basic concept of a loby and a training room you teleport to (in the example Mae made the training was for goon pouncing).
But it is certainly possible that a single shared area could suffice (or a few such shared areas).
Lobby w/ teleporters is easy, auto-switching FF is not necessary, respawn location is irrelevant since hitting a wall/floor/ceiling in a parkour room will teleport you back to the beginning, and you can go back to the lobby from there. Bots are only required for “realistic” gameplay and even then you can have players instead. The major problem currently lies in telekills. (Players killing eachother when they TP at the same time & destination).
WRONG! thanks to DevHC™
This could be hardcoded in the new client (notably as part of a first-run tutorial). Also no need for other players to be connected if it’s on a server.
It could end really good.
