Proper Scrim Procedure & Etiquette

[MaeJong]

The TL, timed evos and SD time might need to be a command since some clans may want to change that (and additionally would be useful for practicing).

[bird]

I agree. I don’t know how to code or do any of that though lol

[Sonic]

This couldn’t be said any better. Thank you for @bird for putting together a quality post that should exemplify purity in scrims. We are all members of a competitive nature, and therefore with a clear set of rules we can start enjoying the nature and quality of scrims more and more with a mere purpose.

• Sonic

[Blizz]

Welcome to EU rules scrims. Always said it those rules are better, but this is my personal opinion.

Bug will decide.

[bird]

@Blizz

Bug will decide.

Bug may decide for his clan, not for all scrims. But Fk will operate under these rules from now on. They are fair.

EDIT: I’m happy you seem to agree with these rules btw @Blizz

[Blizz]

@bird

But Fk will operate under these rules from now on

I don’t think that server operators will set everytime for each Clan settings they want. We should start to talk (if all want) about the possibility to change the rules, and then we will use them.

Some old (EU) rules:

Win condition:
1 scrim divided in 4 rounds. 2 on a map, 2 on another [quote=“bird, post:1, topic:2307”]
One clan picks map, the other gets to pick first race (a/h).
[/quote]

Yep.

Ofc. if the first half of the scrim is won with a 2-0, the entire scrim is won by ____

@bird

A proper victory is ALWAYS a 2-0. A 1-0-1 will NEVER be considered a victory

Not with only 2 rounds, yes if we get 4 rounds (so 1-0-3).

SD 25 TL 35
4 rounds x 35 min = 2:10 h of game (right now is 45 x 2 = 1:30)

@bird

NO time creds/evos.

It’s a big change for you. Anyway is the best option.

[Pride]

@bird I don’t believe that if Bug chooses that what you have offered to not be what he wants, will determine the voice of our clan or make anyone stubborn. These changes should be done collectively with clan leaders, not just one clan and everyone has to follow through. There should be a middle ground.

[bird]

I agree with everything you’re saying. No one has to follow these rules, but anyone who would like to scrim Fk will operate under these rules bc Fk as a clan will only use these and refer to these.

[Pride]

@bird Since Fk will only be scrimming under those rules, how is it fair to judge another clan of being stubborn? Just how Fk has the right to decide what should or should not be, other should aswell unless we collectively agree to something.

[bird]

I had just feared that PMW would not be flexible.

I assumed that PMW would be stubborn and not want to agree to these rules. You are proving me wrong. These should have more input from other clan leaders, but for the time being if anyone wants to scrim Fk we will use and reference these rules as much as possible.

[Rinspeed]

Tbh I support Blizz’s idea of 35 TL. If no time evos and creds no need to go for 40 TL when SD at 20.

[dGr8LookinSparky]

Considering the current size of the community, the fact that there is currently only a handful of reigstered clans, and that GrangerClub is meant to be a scrim server used by the community as a whole, there should be reasonable scrim rules that would be applicable to all registered clans (additionally the title of this topic suggests such general rules and not just the rules of a single clan). So all the proposed rules should be open for discussions.

With that said, I don’t personally object to any of the rules that @bird proposed, but there is something I would like to clarify. We have the GrangerHub discord server available for the convenience of the community, and it definitely should be encouraged to be used especially for scrims, but it should not be a requirement.

[asbestos]

Why isn’t FK flexible? You’re stubborn not PMW

[Menace13]

@dGr8LookinSparky

We have the GrangerHub discord server available for the convenience of the community, and it definitely should be encouraged to be used especially for scrims, but it should not be a requirement.

Participants cannot prevent non-participants from joining the voice channels on the GrangerHub Discord server, and there also aren’t voice channels for each individual clan to use there. On the other hand, Fk and (I think) NoS have both had their own Discord servers where all members are present for a while now, so there is no benefit to using the GrangerHub Discord server when it provides even less flexibility.

@Blizz

SD 25 TL 35

This would result in way too many games going to time limit; 10 minutes Sudden Death is very short.

[Craze]

When you are making rules for scrimming, you(not specifically you bird just like in general, you know?) are not the only person that has an opinion in that matter. Why would you want each clan to make separate rules for themselves and deny any other clans that don’t listen to those rules? That’s how you get no scrims. You should get all the active clan leaders and formulate these rules together.

[MaeJong]

@Menace13

On the other hand, Fk and (I think) NoS have both had their own Discord servers where all members are present for a while now, so there is no benefit to using the GrangerHub Discord server when it provides even less flexibility.

We need a TS server and a way to access it via web.

[Blizz]

@Menace13

This would result in way too many games going to time limit; 10 minutes Sudden Death is very short.

Nah will result in who is better win. Without time evo/creds, the clan that has most kills start to rush and the other one start to lose. SD is the option that give a possibility to unskilled clans.

[Menace13]

@Blizz

Without time evo/creds, the clan that has most kills start to rush and the other one start to lose.

Without time evo/creds, if a team rushes and fails to win during that rush, all of the evos or credits will be transferred to the other team and the team that rushed loses.

Neither team can really win before SD unless they have just been dominating the entire time; in any fairly close scrim, it will always go to SD, and 10 minutes of trying to kill bases just isn’t all that much.

[DevHC]

regarding the (originally posted) rules, i have 2 general PROBLEMs:

• the reasoning behind some rules is WRONG (however, some rules could be saved by fixing the reasoning).
• the rules r not serious enough.

thus, at the time of this writing, the rules r improper. also, the thread is titled „procedure & etiquette”, even though it has nothing to do with procedures and etiquettes.

@bird

Let it be known: I speak only for the Fk clan when I say that we will refuse any scrim not following these specific rules and we will reference this thread anytime necessary.

<insert_clan_here>: let it be known: we will refuse to scrim not following our rules, and will reference our rule thread anytime necessary. also, anyone refusing to scrim by our rules is a pussy.

---

(i’m assuming that u’re using some weird-ass format of wins–losses–draws (instead of wins–draws–losses), and i’ll use that as well).

first, let’s not fall into the dichotomy of win/loss or draw. detailed scores contain more information than an extracted judgement. thus, a 1–0–1 should be recorded as a […] 1–0–1 (well, the full replay yields even more information, but it’s not systematic).

second, if a series has already practically begun, then there is no turning back: a final score should be recorded. eg., if (in the 1st match) humans somewhat recognized that it’s more likely that the aliens have skipped / started moving the base in the first few seconds of the game by hearing / not hearing a dretch jump 10 seconds into the match — a significant tipping point, at least for hardcore games —, then the series has begun. if some matches were disrupted due to some externality (eg., the game server crashed during the series, or a meteor hit some relevant network lines), then that should be noted as well.

A tiebreaker should be decided by a restart of the series on the same map, or a brand new scrim on a different map.

with the said proper recording of detailed information, no special „tiebraker” is necessary.

if you play into a 3rd or 4th or 5th tiebreaking round.

due to the asymmetry of the game, there should be no such things as odd „rounds” (ie., „3rd”, „5th”), only pairs of rounds.

A proper victory is ALWAYS a 2-0. A 1-0-1 will NEVER be considered a victory.

By technicality: A draw on the first round of the map immediately makes the result of said series a draw.

nonsense, as i’ve explained. a 1–0–1 may not not be a proper victory, but it is definitely better than a 1–0–1 or 0–0–2.

[SD @ 20m] speeds things up.

no, it slows things down — compared to 10m; vice versa. the only good justification can be phrased as „because this is just right” (not saying that 20m is just right).

Things get weird and results can get fucked up

eg., ppl falling asleep ? support for such cases shows non-seriousness.

We realize people have duties and obligations IRL.

again, this non-commitment to play shows non-seriousness.

NO time creds/evos.
this will severely nerf aliens which have been overpowered in organized scrims since the dawn of 1.1. No more camping for 4 goons and running havoc over even the slightest disorganization in a human team.

ur clan sux @ high-level understanding of 1.1.

[quote][pausing] is to aid clans who may have a clan member experiencing real life issues and needs to go afk for a short period of time, or to find a sub for someone who may be leaving.
[/quote]
no, this supporting of non-preparation shows non-seriousness. the „lifelines” to pause exist for a clan to get its act together, in case a plan is not working out.

This is just as aforementioned an aid to help players who may be experiencing real life obligations/responsibilities and will also allow people to find a sub if someone has to leave.

i have a feeling that u r repeating urself.

Only one non-clan sub permitted.

don’t u mean at most 1 substitution per 3 other clan-members (ie., max 2 substitutions with 8 players on a side, etc.)?

Scrimming 2 members of x clan and 2 free agents just makes the entire scrim feel like a PUG.

explain this feeling in detail. how does it compare to the feel of a GRANGER ?

Scrims are for CLANS.

WRONG.

One clan picks map, the other gets to pick first race (a/h).

to add to that, unless agreed otherwise, the 2 roles shall be divided randomly.

[some SD time and time limit…]

Only one non-clan sub permitted.

u r free to demand various options, and refuse to play otherwise, and independently for other reasons.

for example, a clan is free to refuse to scrim with ur clan, by arguing that u ppl r too n00b.

In the event that the majority of one/both clan(s) has/ve to leave, the series can be picked up on a later date with the same numbers and same map.

For instance, if x clan wins round 1 and both clans have to leave - that same 2 round series will be continued (if desired) on another date with the same numbers and same map. Let it be known: the same lineup is not required as that is way too situational.

so also, for instance, if a clan does not win match 1, and then that clan has to leave — TOTALLY™_UNINTENTIONAL(R)¹(C), then…

also, multiple maps may be played at different times/dates. in other words, a 4-match series is just an agreement to play 2 pairs of 2-match series, and vice versa.

¹ NOT

[bird]

To anyone @'ing me about not allowing other clan leaders to join in the creation of universal scrim rules.

I addressed bug about it, he responded with: No, we will continue ignoring you as if you guys aren’t here [trem]. (not verbatim, but pretty damn close).

Sparky: Has not said anything he’d like in the rules.

Face: On vacation.