In the Vanilla Game Mode, should a part of the evo/credit reward from damage inflicted to an enemy player be obtained instantly upon the damage, while the balance of the reward is distributed upon that enemy player’s death?
Yes
Yes, but with some changes (please elaborate by posting on this topic)
No
0voters
This could be a good alternative to timed evos/credits, as you still have to attack for the reward, rather than camping for the timed evos to come by. A cvar can be made for this feature to fine tune the precise percentage and even to turn this off/on. Also fractional evos (that is alien’s ability to receive a fraction of a whole evo) works well with this feature. However, in my opinion this feature should not apply to damaged enemy buildables that give credits/evos upon being killed.
IMHO don’t reward partial damage on a living target until the person inflicting the damage has died - upon respawn pay them for the damage they did on previous spawn (Similar to a re-spawn ‘bonus’).
This is incentive to give it all you’ve got on any given spawn instead of merely just ‘staying alive’.
Please elaborate as to why you think this is an awful idea. I have seen this particular idea used in another mod. Also I have seen factional evos work well in gpp vanilla, and in gpp mods.
So you would either receive the partial reword when you die then respawn (and the enemy didn’t die at that time), or the full reward when the enemy dies before you do?
How could this ever possibly work? People can just regenerate their health. This would mean people get free credits and evos even when they DON’T get kills. You can do 399 damage to a Tyrant, but if the Tyrant gets away alive, everything you did doesn’t matter worth shit.
In 1.1 Vanilla game play, if you did enough damage to a player that is equivalent to killing them 5 times over before they actually died, you would be rewarded in credits/evos when they die as if you killed them 5 times. This idea is about being able to collect on some of that total same amount of reward without having to wait for that player to actually die.
GPP Vanilla however, does work differently in that once a player gets 100% hp, the damage reward is reset (this encourages escapping from combat and avoiding combat until you fully heal) .
It wouldn’t be a full evo. Lets say the “partial advanced reward percentage” is set at 20%. Lets then say an alien does enough damage to a human that if that human died, they would receive a total reward of a half an evo. The alien would then receive 0.1 evos in advance, and receive the remaining 0.4 evos when that human dies.
Gpp vanilla did have a lot of new fundamental problems, and so did the other gpp mods I have played, but there were still some good ideas from those game plays could work better with fine tuning in combination with other game play features, and even in others game plays.
This is not true. If you do 399 damage to a rant, let it heal to full, then do 400 damage to it, you do not get an amount of credits equivalent to having killed two rants. You only get the amount of credits you would get for killing one rant.
And what if the human doesn’t die? What if the map ends before he dies, or if he disconnects, or if he heals to full health, takes 99 damage, then heals to full health again? It makes no sense to reward you for killing someone before you actually kill them.
Getting 175 credits or 1 evo every 2 minutes, under the stipulation that you both do not die and do not get any kills during those 2 minutes, is barely ever relevant in public games except for builders or players who go AFK. I challenge you to actually play a game where you try to win (attacking enemies, trying to kill their base, etc.) and count how many times you get free time evos/credits. It will be zero times, especially since camping mostly occurs after SD, and there are no free credits/evos after SD.
this is exactly what i think. every single sentence. that’s also the reason i stayed with 1.1. if you over-engineer the game ppl some will switch to over vanilla server and community will split again.
fixing bugs (jet stamina, tesla bug, glitch building, etc) is great. changing game mechanics is dangerous as trem has very conservative community (otherwise ppl would’ve abandoned trem long ago).
this feature won’t work because you don’t know if damaged player will die.
also this will be perfect for camping humans in base with md. each attacking alien will give you points no matter if he dies or not. sam with lucy and chain - just spam and for sure you hurt some big aliens. but you need some skills to actually kill them
We have implemented the partial credit/evo reward for the Swirl Game Mode (not Vanilla Game Mode), and it is ready for testing on the test7341 server. The general idea is that currently you get 10% of the value for damage when it is inflicted, and upon a kill you get 90% of what you would have gotten without this feature. The ratio can be adjusted.
I haven’t implemented @romdos 's idea of having this reward given only upon your own death yet, lets see how the basic concept works out for this Thursday’s and Saturday’s dev games first.
Except it is. However it also happens to be the most enjoyable variant of Tremulous officially released thus far.
There is an amazing game in Tremulous, but there is also an amazing amount of bullshit unique to the way the game and it’s maps were designed. I think its worth going through the fires of trial and error until we know for sure Tremulous can’t be more enjoyable than it currently is.
1.1 has it’s flaws but maneuvering your way around said flaws is what makes select players stand out. I don’t agree with this idea for the reasons listed above. Time evos are beneficial enough and if your target doesn’t die then that just means you didn’t do a good enough job and therefore don’t deserve the evo.
I’ve seen timed evos/crediots used as an excuse to camp when the team is low on evos. Even though the amount awarded is relatively low per player for the given period of time, with /share it can be a significant amount for one or two or a few players on your team (depending on the size of your team), so camping during that time period can be a viable strategy with timed evos/credits.
The idea here is to reward and not punish good attempts at engagement, rather than reward camping, and to give a way to get out of a trapped stalled situation.
It’s funny because this only happens in scrims and Trem 1.1 was never designed to be balanced for scrims. Timed evos/credits are not a problem at all in pub games.
but giving points for partial damage will reward camping even more. in previous model you had to camp ‘efficiently’ that is ‘chase and kill the enemy’. in the model you propose, every camper will be rewarded for every single bullet put in the enemy that actually escaped. there will be no point in chasing them
@dGr8LookinSparky remember what new edge had to do to “balance” this?
right, make medkits not available through standing on a medi but rather be bought for 50c at the armory. It literally got SO BAD that humans needed a penalty for camping with this new system which new edge “fixed” by making poisoned dretches waste 50 human credits at a time given that they died to turrets. (WHICH NEVER FUCKING WORKED BECAUSE THERE WAS ALWAYS ONE FUCKING GUY THAT KEPT RUNNING INTO MD’S) It was terrible, admit it already, no point wasting your time with this bullshit system.