Vanilla Game Mode for Tremulous 1.3: Changelog

[dGr8LookinSparky]

@newb

Marked deconstruct is staying from GPPnoooooo. other things seem minor. they may affect balance but are still easy to tune local changes. but this one changes the game significantly. you don’t need your team now, you can move base without securing the movement properly. it makes the game less strategy more fpp. but there is plenty of fpp on the market. plz reconsider it.

Actually there is already a cvar that can turn marked deconstruction on and off.[quote=“newb, post:2, topic:1241”]
things like BP, damage, range sounds like it should sit in a config file and be easily configurable by server owner. if you hardcode it in qvm then if you make one single error in balancing the game, the qvm will be useless and non-developers will have to wait for your update. is the game balanced with those settings?
[/quote]

Somethings like bp can already be adjusted by cvars, and you can even have a cfg change those values for specific maps. But currently most of the game play values are hardcoded in the tremulous.h file in the CODEZ™ and require recompiling when changing them, but as Kreative mentioned, those adjustments aren’t difficult for us to do.

For the initial release of Tremulous 1.3 we are going to be including 3 basic game modes that server owners can switch bewtween, this Vanilla game mode developed now is one of those 3. But it is very important that the hardcore Tremulous 1.1 vanilla players help us with the tests over the next several dev games on the test7341 server, and discuss here on the forums how to improve this game mode, because we want to replace the current qvm used by GrangerPub and by GrangerClub with this new qvm in the next couple of weeks. Before this upgrade occurs, the game play needs to be perfected, and the community must be satisfied with this game mode.

When Tremulous 1.3 is released, modders can code new game plays based on any of the 3 basic game modes, But the code will be a whole lot cleaner and easier to work with than with 1.1 modding, with thousands of less bugs.

We will be looking into implementing a mutator engine in a subsequent release, which would allow even significant changes to the game play that can be implemented without having to recompile, and in many cases wouldn’t even require a map change. But before we look into developing such a system, our primary focus is to finish the development for the initial release.

@krtv

BP regen, when a structure is destroyed, it takes a certain amount of time for the BP that structure took up to come back.

I’m not sure about this change, it can result in significant differences in the strategy, but might be acceptable if the bp regen rate was increased enough compared to what it was in gpp.

[krtv]

@Menace13

I told you already that I like these changes, but I think that 3x regen is extremely strong. This would let an Adv. Goon go from 1 HP to 250 HP in around 12 seconds (or less? not sure how fast regen ticks are in 1.1). I would recommend just having Adv. Lisk have 2x regen and give normal Lisk no regen aura. This will give an incentive to have aliens use the second evo for Adv. Lisk and also ensure aliens don’t have ridiculous amounts of health regen at stage 1. In GPP, there was never any way to get double regen at stage 1; both ways came from Adv. Lisk and Booster; the 1.5x regen boost came from normal Lisk and being near base (if I recall correctly for the second part). Aliens already have a huge advantage when it comes to regenerating health, and this would drastically increase their health regeneration. 1x/2x for normal/Adv. Lisk (respectively) sounds way better.

Side note, will Basi’s footsteps be silent now?

i like the idea, though I’m not sure the regular basi should have regen totally gone, especially with humans able to have forwards at stage 1, what about making regular basi regen 0.5 and adv basi regen 2.0?

@Menace13

Please no. The zap in GPP was the final change in GPP before the devs abandoned it and left zap being extremely overpowered for taking down bases, even in one-man rushes. It should be better than it is in 1.1, but definitely not as strong as it was in GPP.

sorry that was a bad typo, I meant zap damage will be the same as 1.1***, yeah I definitely don’t want gpp zap damage lol

@Menace13

Chaingun isn’t the problem, battlesuit is. As I recommended, decreasing the efficiency of the armor from 80% to 78.75% would be enough to make goons able to defeat battlesuits in one less chomp (assuming all chomps hit the head). Adding more randomness to an already random gun is a bad way to balance the armor that allows the gun to be strong. In a medium to close range fight, the spread change will do next to nothing to nerf chainsuits.

i didn’t want to nerf humans more atm, i feel anything other than chainsuit is pretty dealable even with goon, i don’t want to make it a 3 goon chomp deal as I feel that would sort of devalue battlesuit overall, battlesuit is supposed to be the big, heavy equivalent for stage 3 humans, but again, after some testing and seeing it’s not enough the values can be chaged.

chainsuit spread was to make it more ideal for dealing with big aliens and give smaller ones some breathing room, i.e. less bullets will hit close range dretches/basi’s.

knockback was easily one of the most infuriating things for me as goon player fighting chainsuits, if i mess up movement even slightly, i can not readjust to the constant knockback in time to kill a chainsuit.

@Menace13

In 1.1, painsaw range was not 40, it was 48. Either way, this is a MASSIVE buff to saw, allowing it to beat out dretches and basi grab when unlagged is factored in. I dislike this change, and I am a heavy proponent of using saw to fight goons and rants.

the width and height are still the same as 1.1, (though in 1.1 these values weren’t defined using the tremulous.h file)

@Menace13

What is the new base HP regen rate for Rant after these changes? It used to be 7, but due to the regen aura, it was always 14 per tick.

ah another change i forgot to document, tyrant regen is now 12, updated post.

@Menace13

I agree with Ckit. I dislike this feature. I prefer the standard deconstruction system. Mark decon prevents accidental decons, but otherwise is frequently a nuisance.

i can make a cvar to disable it clientside, but i definitely like it as an addition to give you more control over your base. you can still instantly deconstruct, it’ll just have to be on a different bind.

[Menace13]

@krtv

i like the idea, though I’m not sure the regular basi should have regen totally gone, especially with humans able to have forwards at stage 1, what about making regular basi regen 0.5 and adv basi regen 2.0?

I don’t think normal Basilisk needs many buffs (unlike Adv. Basilisk), especially if they are getting silent footsteps. Just leave Basilisk as it is in 1.1, and give Adv. Basilisk the same healing aura that the booster has in 1.1. The only change I would give normal Basilisk is giving it 3 hp regen per tick instead of the current 2 per tick (to match with Adv. Granger’s regen speed) and then Adv. Basilisk can stay at 3 regen per tick because it will always have booster-style double regen. Even with humans being able to have forwards at stage 1, it does not make sense for aliens to have access to a booster at stage 1, even if that booster cannot provide poison.

@krtv

the width and height are still the same as 1.1, (though in 1.1 these values weren’t defined using the tremulous.h file)

I don’t think the width and height are a problem, I think pain saw is already a strong weapon in 1.1. It costs 100 dollars, it’s not supposed to be a weapon that can solo every alien in the game. Increasing the range so substantially will make it much easier to destroy small aliens and big aliens alike while not affecting its usefulness in base rushes (except for maybe not having to crouch to kill some things). Let’s keep in mind here that the pain saw has TWO HUNDRED damage per second. That’s more than double the prifle and nearly triple the chaingun. If the pain saw had the range of a normal gun, it would be brokenly good. Furthermore, unlagged can “increase” the range to hit aliens that are further away than it should be able to hit (most notably a Basilisk, even though Basilisk grab range currently out-ranges pain saw). If any change was to be made to the pain saw, I would just have it fire more frequently for less damage per hit so it is more consistent with how much damage it does vs. how long it is actually close enough to hurt the enemy. But it really doesn’t need such a massive buff. This is the equivalent of speeding up luci balls or prifle shots by 33%, but in the form of the range it can hit. It makes it way stronger than a 100 cost gun should be.

[Hero]

@Menace13

Let’s keep in mind here that the pain saw has TWO HUNDRED damage per second. That’s more than double the prifle and nearly triple the chaingun.

You are way overplaying the pain saw’s effectiveness. On paper you may be correct, but no goon that sees a pain saw thinks, “OH NO HE CAN KILL ME IN 1 SECOND, I BETTER RUN.” They walk right into the saw because it is garbage at killing anything but defenseless eggs, and pillaging the Overmind.

Keep the saw changes, don’t make the lisk too strong. Watch players like Cleanharry, Cole and Menace and I promise you that you won’t think the lisk needs a buff. Unless they are fighting me kappa.

On another note, a goon should not have the advantage against a Battlesuit. The suit is already underused and easily abused by good aliens. If you’re going to lower the effectiveness of the armor, you need to give the suit a radar to offset the damage the player takes. A change I’ve wanted to see for years now.

I would advise you to tread lightly, we’ve been playing vanilla 1.1 for years and drastic changes won’t be well received unless the community explicitly calls out for the changes. That being said I think the changes you’re making will be enjoyable.

[dGr8LookinSparky]

@Hero

I would advise you to tread lightly, we’ve been playing vanilla 1.1 for years and drastic changes won’t be well received unless the community explicitly calls out for the changes.

This particular game mode is meant to replace 1.1 vanilla so that generally all hardocre Trem 1.1 vanilla players would prefer to play this game mode on the new 1.3 qvm, instead of playing on the old 1.1 vanilla servers. We aren’t going to be including many more changes for this particular game mode than what was listed, and may even revert/alter those changes, only things that the hardcore 1.1 gamers always wanted to see in this game play will be changed. It is important the hardcore 1.1 players are made more than satisfied with this particular game mode replacing the old 1.1 vanilla servers, they have the final say for this game mode design, so that the whole Tremulous community can finally move forward together towards a fun future.

[bird]

I agree with everything in this changelog bar the Chaingun nerf. Battlesuits have never been the problem. I as well as many others can take the battlesuit out EZPZ with an Adv goon or even a reg goon. Chainguns are quintessential within a human squad for taking out big game aliens ESPECIALLY if those aliens are in some sort of squad (2 rants and a few goons, 3 rants). I figure you’re nerfing the chaingun to accomodate for the rant nerf, however this isn’t necessary. Now, instead of a rant absolutely tormenting as big of a squad as 6 humans even with a battlesuit included, the rant will have to use tactics and even a teammate to take out a squad that big. The rant nerf WAS necessary where the chaingun nerf WASN’T.

I think all of the construction changes were necessary and favorable. One change I would love to see is granting both humans and aliens on club and pub both extra BP. Maybe 36? This would allow for more interesting builds, incentive for the builder, and longer gameplay.

I’m glad the aliens got buffed for pubs because now instead of all of the whore human players (cough Pluto, Spamo, Police, ManInHijab cough) who almost never play aliens will suffer and have to work harder. However on the flip side, scrimming on atcs with humans will be more challenging than it already was.

Another change I’d like to see implemented especially now that tubs are buffed, can we turn off the “time evo” grant? At least on club. Scrims have been reduced to aliens camping for time evos and getting a quick one or two dragoons to absolutely torment s1 humans. If we can turn off time evos that’ll encourage more aggressive alien gameplay and with the buffed tubes even if the humans are domming dretches it’ll be hard to get past their defenses. Let me be clear though, don’t disable /share. Some of the less skilled players may get the lucky evo and have to fend off the opposition for their more skilled squad. I think aggression should be encouraged but we should still enable a shared economy. Right now because of time evos aliens are very OP in scrims.

Or, possibly, make it so that a certain number of kills (maybe even 1 kill) said player will start receiving time evos but within a longer span of time.

Please let me know thoughts^^

Thanks.

-bird

[MaeJong]

@krtv

The improved marauder movement from GPP is staying, this includes better vertical air movement and the ability to jump on sloped walls.

Cancer.

@krtv

Tyrant

The tyrant has been nerfed a bit from it’s 1.1 status,
it’s hit width has been nerfed, from 20 -> 16
HP has been changed from 400 -> 350
Regen aura has been removed
Tyrants crushing from GPP is staying as well, if you somehow find yourself underneath a rant, then you will die.
Tyrant regen change from 7 -> 12 to make up for aura regen loss

FINALLY ZQSFQFGDSRHSZH

@krtv

Painsaw

Painsaw range increase from 40 -> 64

Not sure how I feel about this.

@krtv

Tesla Generator

The Tesla Generator now costs less BP, from 10 -> 8

An interesting upgrade would’ve been to make it able to shoot over turrets, if it doesn’t already in GPP. Idk about a BP change.

@krtv

Repeater

The repeater is now available at stage 1

@MaeJong

Not sure how I feel about this.

@Hero

On another note, a goon should not have the advantage against a Battlesuit. The suit is already underused and easily abused by good aliens. If you’re going to lower the effectiveness of the armor, you need to give the suit a radar to offset the damage the player takes. A change I’ve wanted to see for years now.

The whole point of the battlesuit was always to remove the chaingun’s recoil for me. The extra hit you can take is bonus. Bsuits without luci/chaingun look tasty as fuck though.

[Woodbury]

@bird

Another change I’d like to see implemented especially now that tubs are buffed, can we turn off the “time evo” grant? At least on club. Scrims have been reduced to aliens camping for time evos and getting a quick one or two dragoons to absolutely torment s1 humans. If we can turn off time evos that’ll encourage more aggressive alien gameplay and with the buffed tubes even if the humans are domming dretches it’ll be hard to get past their defenses. Let me be clear though, don’t disable /share. Some of the less skilled players may get the lucky evo and have to fend off the opposition for their more skilled squad. I think aggression should be encouraged but we should still enable a shared economy. Right now because of time evos aliens are very OP in scrims.

I think is better not to disable them, instead be an automatic activated or deactivated battle sense timer where you receive timed evos/credits if you are near or in a battle, but not sitting around in base. (I mean that you need ENEMIES somehow near you in a fixed distance)

[Shuffle]

@krtv

Basi regen from GPP is staying
Basi has a regen modifier of 2x
Adv basi has a regen modifier of 3x

I think 3x is a bit OP - I agree with Menace on this. [quote=“krtv, post:1, topic:1241”]
Zap can chain up to 5 humans and/or buildings, and is also easier to aim
[/quote]

This is kinda OP for destroying bases, if I remember correctly.

@krtv

Painsaw range increase from 40 -> 64

I don’t particularly like this. If someone has a tiny lag spike they have a much higher chance of getting killed.

@krtv

Marked deconstruct is staying from GPP, this means instead of a building being deconstructed, it is put in a queue to be deconstructed when more BP is needed

Don’t like this at all. It makes it way too easy to move a base, and aliens/humans can’t ‘hold buildings hostage’ anymore - this was a small advantage you could get from map control, and is especially important in scrims.

---

I either like or am indifferent(ish) to the rest of the changes outlined.

[MaeJong]

@bird

Another change I’d like to see implemented especially now that tubs are buffed, can we turn off the “time evo” grant? At least on club. Scrims have been reduced to aliens camping for time evos and getting a quick one or two dragoons to absolutely torment s1 humans. If we can turn off time evos that’ll encourage more aggressive alien gameplay and with the buffed tubes even if the humans are domming dretches it’ll be hard to get past their defenses. Let me be clear though, don’t disable /share. Some of the less skilled players may get the lucky evo and have to fend off the opposition for their more skilled squad. I think aggression should be encouraged but we should still enable a shared economy. Right now because of time evos aliens are very OP in scrims.

I agree with turning timed evos off for scrims. Timed evoes are important in pub though. Tube range buff was overkill also. The damage buff is sufficient imo.

[Shuffle]

@MaeJong

I agree with turning timed evos off for scrims.

Maybe just increase the time it takes to get timed evos? Instead of every 2 minutes, make it every 4-5 minutes?

[Ckit]

If time evo is removed perhaps all buildings could provide a small amount of kill credit, currently only spawns/OM/RC do.

[dGr8LookinSparky]

@bird

Another change I’d like to see implemented especially now that tubs are buffed, can we turn off the “time evo” grant? At least on club. Scrims have been reduced to aliens camping for time evos and getting a quick one or two dragoons to absolutely torment s1 humans.

Check out this proposed alternative to timed evos: Receiving a partial credit/evo reward upon inflicting damage to an enemy player before that player's death .

Oh, I just remembered a couple of other improvements from gpp that are being kept:

• Aliens can obtain fractional evos. If alien A accounts for 60% of the damage of a killed human, alien B accounts for 25%, and alien C accounts for 15%, The earned evo(s) would be divided base on the same fractions. However, this also means that if only one dretch bite to the ankles is sustained by a killed human that received the rest of the damage from alien buildables, that dretch only gets a fraction of the evo based on its contributed damage, and the rest of the evo is lost.

• Tha bug where buildable models drop below the actual buildables when built on edges is fixed. So no more invisible edge boosters/dc/rets/etc…

• Teslas can zap over rets (As Mae just brought up).

Another new feature being added (that wasn’t in gpp vanilla) is that the melee attacks will be improved so that a target that can receive damage that is within range, that is within your line of site, and that is the closest to the cross hairs, will be damaged. Two significant things result from this, when multiple targets are within range of your melee attack and within line of site, you can accurately pick a specific target, also map objects will no longer block your melee attack from damaging a target within your line of site and within range.

@Shuffle

@krtv

Zap can chain up to 5 humans and/or buildings, and is also easier to aim

This is kinda OP for destroying bases, if I remember correctly.

It might not be OP with adjusted values such as the damage, and maybe even reducing the maximum number of targets within a zap chain.

[DarkMicrobe]

admittedly i haven’t read every single point everyone has made in this thread, too many walls of bullshit imo, but i think i can play a role in this discussion as i feel like many ‘gpp noobs’ want the easy game back that held back good players (pro aliens in gpp couldn’t do as much as pro 1.1 alien players, humans is less of a difference as their strength isnt that different from both games, tactics are) on the other hand i feel like there are a lot of hardcore 1.1 fanatics that are not open to discussion about changing the game because they are used to the game they’ve played for so long. Seeing as i’ve played both games i think i can provide an unbiased opinion (contradictory but w/e) about actual implementation:

Some arguments against intended basi changes: 1) OP as there would be no reason for fwds anymore 2) basi players would get too many abilities for 1/2 evos

A possible nerf for basi players could obviously be: giving it 80hp and upping mdriver dmg from 38->40 (would also change md vs goon battles, but that’s open for debate) while also giving basi the regen.

@Hero

I promise you that you won’t think the lisk needs a buff

If you keep seeing basi as an assault class rather than a support class, there is no reason to even debate these changes. Although im shit at basi, it’s still mostly a whore class, it can’t actually do shit other than get kills (against a decent h team)

Zap is retarded in gpp as it’s weak as fuck against suits (13dmg or some shit like that) yet you can kill a rifle (theoretically) without him even seeing you as hitboxes around corners are weird, does 60dmg vs nakeds #OP.

I’m really dissapointed that the gpp repeater hasn’t been discussed. The current debate over how much bp a team should have is retarded, give humans more bp and they have more camp structures, give humans less bp and they have more reasons to camp, just implement the gpp repeater: costs 4bp, makes free 20bp in only to be used in it’s own zone (zone is 1/2 of rc zone), no other repeater can be build in that zone, and repeaters cant be built in rc zone. in other words,repeater allows humans to build forwards, without bogging down the main base defences, humans can get map dominance more easily, but can’t camp any harder.

Guide on gpp building by meisseli, better explanation than i can give you

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=gxAfOynVh0ZUxfa4vwO3x3&topic=14350.0

Marked deconstruct works counterintuitive for the most part, only really helps on atcs moving to tunnel at start of game, but that’s predictable anyways, so shitty feature imo.

Gpp aliens have shitty health regen compared to 1.1, which is why basi / fwd is so vital in gpp (yeah you 1.1 fuckbois might think you had it bad, think again, 2hp/s goon regen ftw) you really can’t implement gpp basi without also removing 1.1 regen or booster, and that’s going to recieve a lot of resistance.

gpp suits were overused, but that’s also because of normal armor getting 3 pounced by goons (op gpp days), so i really don’t have a clue about what would happen if you gave goons an easier time vs suits in 1.1. Chaingun however, really isn’t the problem as it’s a good counter to rants and goons when grouped.

Btw @devs idk what bsuit hitbox is, might just be this gpp scrub over here overaiming cuz im used to it, but think very carefully about making the hitbox accurate like gpp for bsuits, a lot of veterans are going to get annoyed at getting body shots vs bsuits if you implement gpp suits. I have the feeling suit hitboxes are not as tall in 1.1 as they are in gpp.

Maybe default alien crosshair implement as well in hud :>>>>

[Hero]

@dGr8LookinSparky

they have the final say for this game mode design

This doesn’t mean anything until you prove it. [quote=“Shuffle, post:16, topic:1241”]
Don’t like this at all. It makes it way too easy to move a base, and aliens/humans can’t ‘hold buildings hostage’ anymore - this was a small advantage you could get from map control, and is especially important in scrims.
[/quote]Great point.[quote=“MaeJong, post:17, topic:1241”]
I agree with turning timed evos off for scrims. Timed evoes are important in pub though.
[/quote]I came to say this.

[Menace13]

@Shuffle

Zap can chain up to 5 humans and/or buildings, and is also easier to aim

This is kinda OP for destroying bases, if I remember correctly.

Not with 1.1 damage fall-off. The problem in GPP was the damage fell off much slower, so it could do hundreds of damage from a single zap. 1.1 has a different way of handling damage fall-off when jumping from one target to another, and it makes it much weaker for destroying bases. It might still be troublesome, but it won’t necessarily be brokenly strong.

@DarkMicrobe

Gpp aliens have shitty health regen compared to 1.1, which is why basi / fwd is so vital in gpp (yeah you 1.1 fuckbois might think you had it bad, think again, 2hp/s goon regen ftw) you really can’t implement gpp basi without also removing 1.1 regen or booster, and that’s going to recieve a lot of resistance.

You are not remembering GPP health regen speed correctly, nor the gameplay itself. GPP still had the same booster as 1.1. GPP aliens healed 1 health at a time, but at different speeds (shorter intervals for bigger aliens). Being near alien creep increased regen slightly to more normal 1.1 speeds. Being near normal basilisk increased it to around 1.5x speed. Being near adv basilisk or booster increased it to around 2x speed. You don’t have to remove the 1.1 regen or booster to give Adv. Lisk the same regen aura as a booster. It would be fine.

@DarkMicrobe

Btw @devs idk what bsuit hitbox is, might just be this gpp scrub over here overaiming cuz im used to it, but think very carefully about making the hitbox accurate like gpp for bsuits, a lot of veterans are going to get annoyed at getting body shots vs bsuits if you implement gpp suits. I have the feeling suit hitboxes are not as tall in 1.1 as they are in gpp.

In 1.1, the battlesuit hitbox locations and sizes are the exact same as the normal human hitboxes. In GPP they increased the hitboxes of the battlesuit to more accurately fit the model at the expense of making aiming for the head different depending on what kind of human you were attacking (armour vs suit).

@dGr8LookinSparky

Aliens can obtain fractional evos. If alien A accounts for 60% of the damage of a killed human, alien B accounts for 25%, and alien C accounts for 15%, The earned evo(s) would be divided base on the same fractions. However, this also means that if only one dretch bite to the ankles is sustained by a killed human that received the rest of the damage from alien buildables, that dretch only gets a fraction of the evo based on its contributed damage, and the rest of the evo is lost.

This is incredibly annoying because it means that a single kill might result in NOBODY getting an evo. Theoretically, a team of 6 people could have 5 kills with none of them actually having a full evo. In GPP, evolve points were split into 400 parts, and it was really annoying a lot of the time. It helps bad players get evos while taking evos from the people who actually got the kill. Tying into what I said in the other thread, if you don’t get the full kill, you don’t deserve the evos. You failed, and you should not be rewarded for failing just because you didn’t fail as badly as you could have.

[bird]

As Men’s above post makes this evident, he’s one person whose opinion should be highly valued in 1.3 gameplay.

[dGr8LookinSparky]

@Menace13

It helps bad players get evos while taking evos from the people who actually got the kill.

In 1.1 vanilla the distribution of the evos is more complicated than that, the full evo doesn’t go to the player who got the kill. It is roughly based on if you dealt the majority of damage towards a given evo increment, you are the one that gets that whole evo. If upon a human player’s death, alien A did 80% of an evo worth of damage to that human player, alien B did 30% of an evo worth of damage to that same human player (so a total of 110% of damage was done by both), and no other alien players did damage to that human player, both aliens would be getting 1 full evo regardless of which alien killed that human, or even if that human was killed by buildables/suicide/tk/deathzone/etc.

@Menace13

Theoretically, a team of 6 people could have 5 kills with none of them actually having a full evo.

Being able to share and donate fractional evos would solve that problem. But something else to consider is fractional evos applied to this alternative to share and donate: Having evos and credits accessable in a single team pool, rather than having credits/evos allocated to each individual player

@Hero

@dGr8LookinSparky

they have the final say for this game mode design

This doesn’t mean anything until you prove it.

As I have said, the purpose of this particular game mode is to make the old 1.1 servers completely obsolete with the availability of 1.3. For this particular game mode, even if us GrangerHub developers completely disagree with some of the the final choices of the overall hardcore Tremulous 1.1 vanilla players for the game play specifics of this particular game mode, we are going with the hardcore player’s choices.

We are working on a third game mode that in my opinion will be much better than what fine-tuning Vanilla game play or gpp game play can achieve. So it is ok for this Vanilla game mode to be designed to the overall hardcore Tremulous 1.1 player’s specifications exactly.

No single game play for Tremulous can be designed that will satisfy everyone, Tremulous needs variety, which is why we are going to be including 3 game modes in the initial release (and at some point look into implement a mutator engine) . Not to mention, I personally enjoyed playing on different active servers with different game plays, depending on what I felt like playing at the time. I’m looking forward to seeing the kinds of modded servers that will pop up after we release 1.3.

[Menace13]

@dGr8LookinSparky

In 1.1 vanilla the distribution of the evos is more complicated than that, the full evo doesn’t go to the player who got the kill. It is roughly based on if you dealt the majority of damage towards a given evo increment, you are the one that gets that whole evo. If upon a human player’s death, alien A did 80% of an evo worth of damage to that human player, alien B did 30% of an evo worth of damage to that same human player (so a total of 110% of damage was done by both), and no other alien players did damage to that human player, both aliens would be getting 1 full evo regardless of which alien killed that human, or even if that human was killed by buildables/suicide/tk/deathzone/etc.

This is only true if the human was WORTH more than 1 evo. If it was a nude rifle, and one dretch gets a headbite on him, and the other gets a foot bite, no matter which order it happens in the dretch that got the headbite will get the evo. However, you are correct to a degree for when humans give 2 or more evos.

@dGr8LookinSparky

Being able to share and donate fractional evos would solve that problem. But something else to consider is fractional evos applied to this alternative to share and donate:

This would only fix the problems of fractional evos in scrims. In public games, even if you have 99% of an evo, if the 1% went to somebody who doesn’t like you, you’re probably not getting that 1% of an evo and you probably won’t get to evolve. If a shitty player who doesn’t know what console is does one footbite to a human then you swoop in and get a headbite, you’re not going to get to go basilisk.

@dGr8LookinSparky

No single game play for Tremulous can be designed that will satisfy everyone, Tremulous needs variety, which is why we are going to be including 3 game modes in the initial release (and at some point look into implement a mutator engine) . Not to mention, I personally enjoyed playing on different active servers with different game plays, depending on what I felt like playing at the time. I’m looking forward to seeing the kinds of modded servers that will pop up after we release 1.3.

You still seem to stubbornly hold on to the belief that Tremulous will somehow suddenly get a large, thriving community again that will actually allow for a large number of mods and servers to exist and be populated. As it is, Tremulous barely has enough players that you could justify having two populated servers at once. When a scrim happens, half of the time it empties the public server because there aren’t enough players left on the server to play fun games, especially when the good players are the ones leaving the server, leaving only the detritus of what is the Tremulous community to remain. There is no chance of a large variety of modded servers popping up, and even if they did, it would be a bad thing because it would further separate the community and result in smaller and less fun games. (Then again, if the GPP players all went away again, maybe the good 1.1 players would actually be able to play against good opponents more consistently…)

Furthermore, if the majority of Tremulous players cared about having a variety of game modes, you wouldn’t see so many die-hard 1.1 fans, players who never leave the X group of servers, players who quit when their favorite modded server died. People who still play Tremulous play it because it’s Tremulous. Some even only play because it’s 1.1 Tremulous. If the choices were between GPP and no Tremulous, I know tons of people would pick no Tremulous. (Thus why Tremulous split in ~2010.)

[newb]

@Menace13

Some even only play because it’s 1.1 Tremulous.

+1
guys, let’s make a poll. how many version of trem exists/ is planned?

the poll: i want to and probably will play:

1. 1.1 as is
2. 1.1 with fixes (jet stamina, boost timer reset, tesla bug) but without improvements (smaller goons, opening barricades etc)
3. 1.1 with fixes and improvements
4. that thing that is being developed on test server
   … do we have anything else?