it’s not an answer to my question. the question was: if it’s going to be public why there is no public repo?
and why code that is not ready should be hidden?
and this at least shows the real intention. thank you @DevHC yes, we want to rip the code off. so what? it’s supposed to be open, right? under gpl? what’s the difference if i rip it off right now or in X months (when you decide it’s ready)?
that’s invalid argument. when you release the code, everyone can create malicious client. even now, everyone can create malicious client if he reverse engineer the protocol. nowadays security it obtained by strong cryptography and not by code obscurity - it’s just against current standards of software craftsmanship
development repo is a secret
can you plz explain it? that’s the only thing that prevents you from releasing the sources?
you are absolutely right. i have no rights to demand anything. i kindly ask for answers. just to know what to expect. they decided to open a discussion, keep the forum open-minded and give some answers. so we pointed out that they the answers are illogical. and it’s true they are dodging some questions. and as long as they want to be open, we can ask questions.
in dodging some questions. and with overall concept of ‘will be open but can’t be open right now’.
enneract stated in an earlier post on this same topic that he is interested in the code to try some features on players, that he would then port to another game, that currently doesn’t have much activity to try such features. When we release, he (as well as everyone else) can do whatever he wants with the code that doesn’t violate GPL, and I’m not opposed to that at all. I was simply referring to that as an opening of the different primary objective that GrangerHub has for developing Tremulous, which is:
The reason we are not releasing the code yet is because neither the server nor the client (both the server and client are two parts of the same code, so both will have to be ready for release when we release) are in a condition where it would be satisfactory for the current and potential playerbase to make enough of an impact for Tremulous to grow.
Additionally there are fundamental problems that we have solutions for that are in the process of being implemented, but are not yet complete.
When we release, anyone who has the code should be able to easily build and setup a high quality server and/or client to start with before proceeding to modify. When we release, large numbers of new players need to be very satisfied with the results so that they choose to play Tremulous regularly, and tell their friends, and then they’re friends should generally be very satisfied and would choose to play Trem regularly, and tell their other friends, and so on.
With a growing playerbase, and good technology to work from, more server owners, modders, developers, mappers, modelers, and other kinds of contributors would decide that Trem is worth spending their precious spare time, attention, effort, and in some cases money on. With more such contributors to the game and to the community, the quality of both would increase, attracting more players to the games, and the virtuous cycle would continue.
In order for the above objective to work, we do need to release the code at some point (that virtuous cycle isn’t going to start substantially before the initial release), but the initial release needs to be done the right way, and have sufficient quality.
Tremulous is in an emergency situation, “business as usual” concepts aren’t going to cut it for getting trem out of this emergency situation, and into stable growth. I believe that if Tremulous has any more chances for revival, this one needs to be successful or Trem would finally come to an end shortly after. If the code is released prematurely, 1.3 would likely not be generally viewed as a viable project, the release would likely obtain a bad reputation from poor experiences, and any chance for revival would fade away.
We do want Tremulous to have many more contributors, we do want Trem to have many new competing servers and mods. But that isn’t going to happen if the Tremulous project finally dies, and released code in such a situation would no longer have any value to Tremulous. But I believe that if the initial release is handled correctly, Tremulous will be a very successful project for many years to come.
That is my direct answer to the question of why not release the code now as opposed to later. Some people might not like that answer, some people might not like (n)or agree with GrangerHub’s choices, some people might not like (n)or agree with (n)or believe in GrangerHub’s objectives. But this is the course Grangerhub has chosen as GPL allows for. GrangerHub is making progress, the community will be feeling that progress very shortly, and we will have a quality initial release as S00N™ as possible, at which point concerns related to the code not being released will become moot.
good riddance. also, u wouldn’t be able to host a competitively anti-competitive (multi-protocol with viral content) server. however, instead of whining, u’re free to implement the multi-protocol functionality urself — it took me 3 days, each consisting of ~18 hours of work —, or some other epic, competitive functionality.
WRONG. guess how GrangerHub’s servers got populated in the first place. pro tip: simply being multi-protocol does not imply a positive startup population.
WRONG.
a rule of thumb in software development — even in open source — is: do not submit incomplete, sketchy, unreviewed, untested, etc. changes. u don’t perform a Git commit, Darcs record, or equivalent when u head off to get a coffee. if u actually do so, then u don’t push, or allow pulling, such a change as-is. if u actually do so, then only to a co-worker’s private repository, the „team”'s repository, or other reasonably contained area. we decide to draw a reasonable boundary line as follows (and it should have been even more conservative !): we don’t release until key shitstains have been wiped off. however, i have already flushed the big balls of crap that made the code in the Tremulous GitHub repository practically unusable by regular users.
for the final fucking time, a pre-existing population is not a prerequisite to start to „do something”. in fact, u „do something” to get some population. for example, i devise the multi-protocol feature to appeal to the masses, not because there r masses to devise appealing features for.
WRONG. kharn0v, the (non-)ideology, etc. just to name some.
but regardless of the actual set of „exceptions”, u being able to see the code won’t change the supposed „superiority”. so u don’t need to see the code.
again, bull_shit (see above, also see previous posts).
to fucking say the least. it is very unfortunate that, given the lack of resources and accountability vectors for open-source developers, it is impractical to seek to impose legal penalties for such actions, but in an ideal world, such actions would be deterred.
the release should contain measures that prevent such modifications, but that is still on the — no, a — TODO list. it is very difficult to identify all potential paths of malice, so we should be ready to employ technical measures (eg., bans) for offences, such as for that of urs.
by definition: invasive abuse of computer systems of other individuals. also, because it’s a „monopolization strategy”, if u prefer.
monopolization isn’t bad in general. it’s bad when it’s not for the good. for example, gathering an extremely large set of followers, through providing something that they will naturally prefer, such as a multi-protocol server, is endorsed. gathering, through taking attention away from other natural possibilities, is reprehensible.
WRONG. this project really aspires those goals.
WRONG.
WRONG.
u r inside GrangerHub (though outside the GrangerHub staff group).
everyone in the GrangerHub community — consisting almost completely of non-developers — can see what’s going on: new features get implemented every now and then, bugs r getting fixed, organization is being done (eg., gameplay and forum behavior rules were written), etc… so all u don’t see is: the actual code, and internal staff drama.
it isn’t just ad hominem. New Edge died because it sucked, relative to the demands, period.
Sparky knows better, but here’s the outline:
the (admin-)drama sucked. this would be the pushing force for the population to „leave” in some way.
they found a new server with Slacker’s mod. its gameplay, being 1.1-style, was drastically different from that of New Edge, GPP-style. u and a lot of others agree that 1.1 sux compared to GPP.
so most ppl just ragequit, a few decided to stick around, finding the server with Slacker’s mod to be acceptable.
and the most embarassing part is that u participated in escalating the drama.
essentially, GrangerHub saved some of the players. additionally, GrangerHub gathered a new community by being epic. this pretty much keeps the Tremulous player community above a lower bound.
WRONG. in projects i take significant part in, there shall be no use of the „official” word. however, GrangerHub is really the most popular Tremulous website and development organization. u could call it „official”.
there were no promises. there were free offers covered by demonstrated efforts. there were expectations. those expectations were garbled by optimizm, and lack of predictability and estimation skills of software development. in particular, it happened that
coding was found to be slower than one would guess.
more (almost blocker-type) bugs cropped up.
the community forum and the public test servers got NIGGERized — by a couple of New Edge d00ds —, requiring a massive reallocation of effort to the developing of a strong ruleset for forum and server behavior.
btw, this is a reason why even mere public testing of closed-source programs, or even just running a community website, can be detrimental to code development.
cron pissed me off, leading to me — the most significant code (also, arguably total) contributor — departing from development.
etc.
one promise — no, an ongoing effort with an estimation — is that there will be the release of a new, polished version of Tremulous. there was nothing morally WRONG in failing to predict the future. what matters is that the polishing continues.
how about settling with seeing a code release when it’s done, before it’s too late? it was not too late for a very long time, and it will probably never be too late, modulo the regular player count. also, what is, by ur prediction, the expected last date of being not too late?
both.
to u. but u’re retarded. no, not even to u. u’re just bullshitting, because u want to spread malicious code before it’s too late.
to u, publishing unfinished code signals seriousness?
maybe the so-far demonstrated effort doesn’t prove any seriousness to u, but it does to everyone else.
depending on the imagined meaning behind „ripping off”, i’d rather that u never did. unfortunately, such actions can’t be effectively regulated by legal means. and we need a few months to build up some practical regulability.
WRONG. u’re confusing the security of control over
individual computer systems, primarily data therein, on which owner-controlled software is installed, connecting through and to potentially malicious computer systems
with that over
the community, including the clean behavior, fair organization, resistance to the rise of destructive powers, capability of battling such, and all the rest that is difficult to nominate.
some people can follow the above logic to see that enneract is just trying to make up delusory bullshit to his advantage. others may only understand this after enneract’s true intentions r exposed:
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]enneract[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]what?[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]go develop new edge ?[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]why?[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]why not ?[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]no players?[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]and yeah, trem is a dying game not worth developing[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]so u’re not going to develop any more ?[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]well, new edge was fun to do[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]well, tremulous will be popular eventually[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]sparky is expecting ‘exponential growth’ after[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]so 1 player in 2223[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]2 players in 2224[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]4 players in 2225[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]and so on[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]not going to happen anyway[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]why do u stick around ?[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]why not?[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]it’s still tremulous[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]how about u create a better project ?[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]it’s called ‘unvanquished’[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]go there[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]no players yet, it’s still alpha[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]then u make it better to get players[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]the only reason to play trem is the players[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]or whatever is left of the playerbase[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]100 unique players isn’t a lot[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]so it’s not about development[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]i can’t develop if there are no players[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]i mean i can’t do any gameplay stuff[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]lol how is grangerhub epic?[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]it’s a vanilla 1.1 server[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]how about u make something better than a multi-protocol (multi-client) 1.1 server with bugfixes ?[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]because it’s not worth the effort[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]the only reason i had to develop tremulous (new edge)[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]was the playerbase[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]without it, there’s literally no reason to develop[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]d00d[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]that’s not how development and gaming works[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]it is[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]you leave shit alone to die[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]the automatic update system is public[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]i know but what the fuck do i use it for?[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]good point[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]u don’t use any code for anything[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]reviving trem with updated clients and shit is[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]they don’t give a shit so whys should i?[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]why do u want the code ?[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]because maybe i could revive new edge[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]and do something interesting for a while[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]until the entire trem dies eventually[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]only that ?[/color]
[color=grey]teh_interrogator:[/color] [color=green]for ur interest ?[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]yeah, what else?[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]i can’t see many new edge players here[/color]
[color=grey]enneract:[/color] [color=orange]means at least some players quit the game for goodd[/color]
so as u all can see, enneract has 0 intention to contribute to Tremulous. which is why he won’t get any code.
final word:
enneract: fuck off. or port Q3MME to Tremulous, and then fuck off.
everyone else: there will be a release when it’s ready.
How do you expect me to treat this project seriously if you don’t even read my posts with comprehension? I had already made it clear (in my previous posts and our IRC discussions) that I want your code so I can revive New EDGE.
After all, isn’t helping other servers and developers one of your stated purposes? Or are you telling me that it was all bullshit?
But I thought that (emphasis mine):
To be clear, I don’t have a problem with GrangerHub being selfish or keeping their code secret. I have a problem with you saying one thing and then doing the exact opposite (hence my accusations of fraud).
But it’s perfectly fine to host a server for half a year using this “sketchy, unreviewed, untested” code, right?
Fine, I’ll stop asking about the release. Besides, actions speak louder than words.
And now for some off-top, to keep the thread interesting:
Sucked how? Did the gameplay suck? You don’t seem to agree:
Did the administration suck? I don’t think this is the answer either. Sure, there were issues, notably the dGr8LookinSparky/NewSource drama, but New EDGE was generally much calmer that the original Yalt’s EDGE. It was certainly a lot better than the administration of GrangerPub. There are so many rampant trolls on GrangerPub that I had to apply for kick protection to play normally.
This leaves only one possibility: it sucked because it had fewer players than multi-protocol GrangerPub. New EDGE died shortly after GrangerPub took over AA’s player base (recall that before that, GrangerPub was a ghost town).
i think you confuse code release with product release. do you really think everyone will instantly compile the client, ppl will instantly pay for hosting and everyone will be stupid enough to forget it’s not a ready product?
every single open-source project does it by opening the source (even before release is ready, even between releases when code is not compiling) and lowering entrance level for new developers. they usually do it by creating special category of very simple task / bugs in their issue tracker. it let’s every developer spare like 4h of his time to help building a great product. even if they won’t contribute on regular basis because of lack of time of experience.
i’m sorry, i don’t get it. maybe it’s because my poor english. could you plz explain what exactly security risk do you expect by releasing the code earlier than X?
by ‘riping off’ i mean copy it to protect from vanishing, being able to fix bugs, making my own game if i decide i don’t like the way it develops. basically everything that is permitted by the license. that’s the point of open-source. what kind of ‘ripping off’ don’t you want?
to summarize:
i’m aware that discussion is over, i just really encourage you to think about it. i don’t know who are the devs. but does any one of you has any experience as a product owner? if not, maybe you should at least consider there is a slight possibility that going exactly opposite way that every single open-source project does, might be a wrong direction.
and a completely different topic:
it seems that you believe that launching new version will populate the world with trem players. thousands of failed IT start-ups showed that statistically it’s not true. developing a product is usually a minor part (regarding cost and time) in making that product successful. it needs marketing. and marketing is business as usual. and if we (the community) will market any product the same way we market current trem - it won’t get enough users to survive. bug fixes are great, better client (downloading, etc) is great. but i’m afraid the dev team is going to lock itself in a cave to create greatest game in the world and S00N™ realize there is no one to play it. i hope i’m wrong, i wish you good luck
i have no idea what „previous posts” and what „IRC conversation” u’re talking about. do not pretend that everyone (other than u) is supposed personally know all events that occurred in ur life, to the absurd extent that when u say
, and say
, one is to magically — based on ur personal experiences, later changes/non-changes — interpret those sayings as ur fancy way of saying that „i want to revive New Edge and not give a fuck about GrangerHub”.
it is. with quality code, with which we r occupied at the moment.
ind33d, in the long run. it would be a very interesting (though honestly imaginary) world if every server had its own mod. in other words, the exact opposite of copying/cloning features or whining about not being able to copy/clone others.
furthermore, u’re interested in primarily the multi-protocol code, which has nothing to do with modding for added variance.
what exactly ?
provided that it is made clear that it’s a test server, and that noone should develop a habitual dependency of playing there. essentially, for non-developers, it’s a communication platform. unfortunately, due to surprizes, the standing time of the server is getting long.
i doubt it. (also, the due name is more like the „enneract/kai drama”). before New Edge went quiet, all i heard (on IRC) every 3rd day is something like „kai {trolled|banned someome|is NIGGER} again”, etc., etc., etc…
maybe it’s specifically u. also, admins (of New Edge) were immune to many in-game trolling attempts. otherwise, based on what it sounds like, they would have been back-trolled dearly.
it™ is a LONG(R) STORY(C). basically, @Cerkitz and @Ninja personally harassed @sunphantom, and made the resolution process as painfully slow and awkward as possible. random funny: even a motherfucking operating system foundation recently had to intervene in a (there-relevant) case of harassment. also, did i mention that cron is a DICKBUTT ?
I didn’t explicitly say that I wanted to revive New EDGE, because I knew you’d immediately use it as an excuse to derail this thread. But I didn’t hide it either - it doesn’t take a genius to figure it out from, for example, this post:
Anyway, why does it even matter why I want the code?
Are you saying that GrangerPub is simply a test server that’s been running for so long by accident?
What are you talking about? “enneract/kai drama”? The whole drama with dGr8LookinSparky played out before I became a regular on New EDGE, let alone became an admin. Even after being promoted, all I did was develop the mod and had very little to do with its administration.
This is true, you can have the greatest product, but if you fail at getting that product to the end users (as well as provide good service) , the product fails. But it really helps for marketing to have a product to market. We have a lot done, but this is still a work in progress, and it helps to have something that is tangible that the public can experience. For example, being able to participate in public tests of a new launcher/updater, having a complete 1.3 server that is actively played on, having a complete community website, and then having a new 1.3 client to play on along with being able to setup and mod your own 1.3 servers.
There isn’t much more I can add at this point until we complete a very important milestone very very very very very S00N™, and as enneract said:
that would not necessarily be the preferred state in the near future, and for reasons such as: it would take effort to handle (respond to, consult with, etc.) the potential incoming set of particularly amateur (or just new) contributors. (for example, the Haskell developer community stood against a certain „opening” (was it channel merging, maybe?) that would invite Haskell non-experts to more easily consult with compiler developers on topics that mostly only those developers know (or could find out quickly).)
currently, the situation of the GrangerHub workflow is that every developer, based on tasks assigned to him/her, has a „turf” in the code, where he/she writes new code autonomously, and perhaps receives a review from another; communication is done in a channel that the team is accustomed to, for little overhead. taking on tasks in a way that would not interfere with the effective workflow of the current team, does not require the cloning of an up-to-date GrangerHub development repository. did we mention that there’s also a big motherfucking mess in the code repositories, bug/report trackers, TODO lists, etc.? implications by example: i would not have started the cron’s logic ridiculing thread, had one of cron’s TODO/idea list were rightfully labeled with „THIS IS MOSTLY INSTANT™ RANDOM(R) SHIT-SOUP(C). DO NOT READ, OR ELSE UR BRAIN WILL EXPLODE.” (it is labeled like that now, but too late !)
certainly, a highly experienced developer (the one and only, myself) often has big plans for improvements, superseding any collection of sporadic, basic improvements. in light of a big plan, the sporadic work will have to be re-done, or even simply sent back to where it came from, preferrably KIND™ly. for example, the game admin system needs a major revamp, and could do with a collection of new features. as-is now, the features would be in the form of admin commands — in layman’s terms: in-console typables. after the revamp, there may be no such concept as an admin command — perhaps there would be highly-interactive UIs —, and new features would have to be rewritten for that featurebed. should we tolerate such duplicate work? what about the KIND™ handling?
we could start sorting the tasks/turfs and what not, advize newcomers on what not to touch, but that pretty much pairs with the sorting of the TODO lists, etc., which is… being done.
i’ve already explained plenty of times, showing plenty of aspects (including the one just above).
in this branch of discussion, i simply intended to refute ur argument, which seemed to imply that u think that we’re primarily worried about the „security of client computers”; again, that is not the issue. now, it is actually true that one could try to create malicious downloads (QVMs, maps, etc.), and that should be defended against; but that’s already done, to the extent that we plan to do so in the release. ie., the potential lack of „security of client computers” is not a factor holding back the release.
if we could believe that those things r the only things that r going to happen (through any chain of events involving any world power), then we would have already released the code.
unfortunately, no. the license text doesn’t make it clear that „freedom” implies another’s permission to fuck with complex processes of a community, just for his/her own selfish interests.
now, we wouldn’t want to market a game that’s still not yet done (or allow random ppl to defame the game by simply marketing it in such a state), would we?
WRONG.
it requires analytical intuition and knowledge about the state of affairs in the relevant history. however, what matters is that we now have a stung-out confession — ofc, at this point, u would look even worse if u tried to hide ur intentions further; ur best bet is to try to appear inoccent, as u’re doing now.
no, i was saying that test7341 is such a server. however, GrangerPub is partially also an accidentally longstanding non-release server too: it exists because:
ppl were developing a habit of playing on the test7341 server, which annoyed both the developers (eg., with in-game pushes) and the players (eg., with game restarts).
it was first though, by some, that it would be easy to combine 1.1-style gameplay with the latest Tremulous non-gameplay features (creating the so-called „Vanilla game mode” (or „repulsive mechanics” as i would have called it)) by starting from a 1.1-based gamelogic, and bringing in all non-gameplay patches (or that i would do that S00N™ through whatever path i decided to take) — BUTT: WRONG (and @cron fucked up, so i ended up not going far).
wtf r U talking about ? i’m talking about the pretty much last drama, in which kai was the key troll, and in which i believe @dGr8LookinSparky wasn’t involved (he already left by then?). so, u say that u weren’t involved? ok, then it makes sense that u don’t know much about it, and i should have said „the kai drama”.
Info for all, enneract servial times asked for multiprotocol code for try reanimate New EDGE server, enne, NEDGE died by reason assadmining (not Kai only, also CU|Ghost, CU|Mario and others)
multiprotocol code is don’t help you to reanimate nedge
New EDGE died, they could be replaced by TremDroid HD, when i’ll complete it.
So first you declare yourself the savior of Tremulous working for “Tremulous’s community as a whole”, then you accuse the first person asking for code of some sort of a crime? What a disappointment. Looks like this project really is destined to fail.
What “last drama”? The only significant drama on New EDGE was the one with NewSource.
Funny coming from a notorious serial slanderer and deconner who was muted, banned, subnet-banned and forum-banned countless times on the said server.
This topic originally asked the questions of why GrangerHub has not released the Tremulous 1.3 code yet, and when might the code be released. Those are legitimate questions regardless of the source that asked those question and whatever motives/interests that source might have in asking.
Those questions were sufficiently answered (even if some may not have liked the answers). There is noting more to add until certain critical milestones are completed, and at those events GrangerHub will update the public with further information about the initial release of Tremulous 1.3.
Unfortunately various posts from a few posters included offtopic content as well as personal attacks which add nothing to the discussion, derails the topic, is counterproductive, and also goes against the community guidelines.
For the above reasons I’m closing this topic. GrangerHub will open a new topic about the status of the initial release of Tremulous 1.3 when new information is available.
I believe that this topic has already been thoroughly discussed so I will not say anything more on this topic at least until the initial release 1.3, other than the following two posts I made on another topic pointing out exactly how people can independently do Tremulous development without having access to the unreleased code before the initial release:
Given that I believe this topic has already been thoroughly discussed, and we have made it clear that GrangerHub development is not going to be releasing the unreleased 1.3 code until it has determined that that code is of sufficient quality to maximize the odds of a successful Tremulous revival (which is one of the primary objectives of GrangerHub’s Tremulous 1.3 project), I’m sure that many further posts would be repeating what has already been said, but I will make an exception for this topic and allow such repeating as long as repeating of stuff related to this topic is only made in this topic and not posted in any other topic so as to prevent derailing the discussions and productivity of other threads. So if you wish to waste your time by repeating the same points previously made in this topic that people can still read, you may do so here. In this topic.
However, any other deviations from the community guidelines in further posts in this topic, such as personal attacks, will be flagged. So keep it clean.