[POLL] What are your feelings about the map A.T.C.S.?

Tremulous Assets Factory Mapping
1

[color=#00FF00]What are your feelings about the map A.T.C.S. ?[/color]

Make your voices heard, vote in this poll!

A.T.C.S. has been the most played map in Tremulous history so far, This fact is undisputed. Many Tremulous players love A.T.C.S. with a passion, equate A.T.C.S. to Tremulous, and would play that map all day every day if they could. Many other Tremulous players hate A.T.C.S. with a passion and would love to see A.T.C.S. eradicated from Tremulous forever. Many other Tremulous players are indifferent about this map. Many other Tremulous players fall somewhere between those three categories.

Where are you in this spectrum? If you were to set up the Tremulous server of your dreams that would be active 24/7 with players that shared your tastes in Tremulous, what role would A.T.C.S. have in your dream Tremulous server, if any? To keep things simple, this poll is only about the original A.T.C.S. map, and not about maps based on A.T.C.S. (lets also say for the sake of this discussion, that in your dream server, none of the other maps you might enjoy would not have any technical dependencies on A.T.C.S. that might have such now).

  • A.T.C.S. would not be available to play on my dream Tremulous server.
  • A.T.C.S. would be available to play on my dream Tremulous server but would not be in the map rotation.
  • A.T.C.S. would have a minor role in my dream Tremulous serverā€™s map rotation.
  • A.T.C.S. would have a major role in my dream Tremulous serverā€™s map rotation.
  • A.T.C.S. would have a dominent role in my dream Tremulous serverā€™s map rotation.
  • A.T.C.S. would be the only map in my dream Tremulous serverā€™s map rotation.
  • A.T.C.S. would be the only map available to play on my dream Tremulous server.

0 voters

4

In my dream server, we would have a dedicated mapper who would overhaul ATCS. There was no such option so I vote in favour of it being in a minor role along with every other map. I like playing a variety of different content on a game thats not pushing to be a decade old.

5

The poll is for the original A.T.C.S. map, an overhauled new version of A.T.C.S. would be a different map. (Votes can always be changed until the poll closes :wink: ).

6

If I were to set up the Tremulous server of my dreams; I would not set up a tremulous server because Iā€™m not delusional.

ATCS will always have a special place in my heart. It is the best map. If you donā€™t enjoy ATCS, chances are youā€™re a below average player.

EDIT:
I abstain from voting because this thread will accomplish nothing. This is just a medium in which sparky can complain about ATCS.

2 Likes
7

The poll is unbiased, and the controversial debate of the preferences of the playerbase regarding ATCS is an old one that I did not create. There have been a lot of bold claims about what the playerbase wants in map selection, and before we have the new map selection system in place, with proper statistical analysis of the data, I think it would be interesting to see the results of a preliminary poll. Everyone should be encouraging everyone else to vote in this poll, unless you are afraid that the results might not match you perception of reality.

8

You know, ATCS is a really standard mapping in Trem and itā€™s my favorite mapping, but until dissolved the Trem project teams, we still remain to use it for playing, but many people wants to play custom mappings with I made mapping called ā€œAssaultā€ and ā€œUnstoppableā€. This is because ATCS is pretty boring and fxcking my emotion, but I still need to retain it, so I choose would not be available in my dream.

9

sparky this poll has too many fucking options, if you made the options black and white you know as well as i do that people dont agree with you, by splitting up the yes voters in 10+ different categories, you can in the end say that most people donā€™t want atcs (percentage would be higher because yes percentage is split up in multiple categories)

What iā€™m trying to say is that this poll is definitely biased, and atcs is a great map

1 Like
10

i think the problem is not the atcs itself but other maps. many other maps are crappy. other maps are also a problem for newbies because they anā€™t download them (fast). so when we switch to non-default often there is no one to play. so when i have to choose between (crappy map or empty server) and atcs i choose atcs.

but i donā€™t know why you have so big problems with it? just let the people play and vote ā€˜next mapā€™. so my response is let it be a kind of default and let people change it whenever they want.

also i agree with @DarkMicrobe - you made the poll so fragmented / biased that i hope you will look at the distribution not at every single answer. whatā€™s the difference between major and dominant? whatā€™s the point of ā€˜minor roleā€™. you just wanted to split votes? if you want to get precise number just ask ppl whatā€™s the desired time percentage they want to spend on atcs. donā€™t make the poll biased

11

ATCS has itā€™s place, but itā€™s stale and doesnā€™t promote an exciting meta game. If I would make a server it would have a minor role in the rotation, along side other ATCS style maps. Itā€™s good for fast paced games, warmups and testing. I enjoy the odd ATCS game and so do many others, it definitely deserves a spot in the rotation.

However, we should as a community be searching for maps that can promote diverse gameplay whilst as the same time providing the fast paced gameplay that ATCS does.

The fact that people refuse to play ATCS_2015 or Atcs_HD over the original ATCS is concerning. Is it some sort of Elitism? Nostalgia? Or the stubbornness and refusal for even the slightest change?

Nano is disliked by many who like ATCS and I canā€™t possibly fathom why.

People need to be reminded that this game is NOT balanced, in many custom maps people cry about the openness of hallways making it strong for humans, when really itā€™s balancing the game and making it more fun and exciting. A perfectly symmetrical map like ATCS is not the answer for balance.

12

The colour scheme on ATCS_2015 is weird for me, I donā€™t like it as much as regular ATCS. Iā€™m also not a fan of the random stuff throughout hall. Itā€™s not elitism, and thereā€™s nothing wrong with nostalgia.

Aliens canā€™t run away as quickly, and in a pub match itā€™s easy for humans to camp a victory (even easier than on regular maps).

The game isnā€™t balanced in scrims, but it is reasonably balanced in an average pub match. ATCS has been shown to be the most balanced map in trem history (canā€™t find the link right now, but out of 700 matches on W there was something like a 51/49 Alien/Human win ratio, on ATCS). Other maps are far more imbalanced, and perfect symmetry is the way to get a balanced map.

13

Humans and aliens are completely different, having perfect symmetry for balance makes no sense. The map needs to compliment each sides strengths throughout.

2 Likes
14

good points klit, the elitism about atcs versions is definitely concerning but i believe that the 2015 version has a bigger skybox (as in normal goons cant pounce to jettards from bunker, not sure though dont quote) as for the hd version idc really.

Nano is disliked by people because of the goon heavy spam from aliens (mara is fucking annoying because getting from bottom to top requires a hard jump or isnt even possible, idk which version of trem has the hard but possible jump, might be gpp)

I like atcs because every class and every gun is viable on it.

What you call diverse, fun and exciting, i call abusing op spots on unbalanced maps.
What i call fun and exciting, you call stale and ā€œa non exciting meta gameā€

If you compare atcs to many of the popular maps in the rotation: tremor, nano, utcs, karith, arachnid, mercy, niveus for a start, all other maps have big problems imo.

Tremor: md fest, mara basically useless which is fucking hilarious as it should be great for wallhopping, it also has a chokepoint right in front of h base, which is soooo fucking bad especially in as1 / as2 as you canā€™t get to box room with goon through underground, campfest.

Nano: basically 4 tunnels with one chokepoint in the middle, which can be abused by both teams to insane levels. Hs1 is fucked if aliens get goons because aliens will always control engagements by sitting on bottom level if h are top and vice versa. (They can always run by either going from bot to top or by going top to bot, pouncing back up if h follows, compare to atcs where you have to fight if youā€™re caught out)

Utcs: New version is fucking great i dont have any complaints, maybe the staged doors should be removed but the flank paths etc <3.

Karith: Both good base spots for aliens have vents that can be lucispammed (dark stairs and ele)
If hummies are in default they can leave one rifle / md camping top side (on the ledge where rc is almost always built under) and dark stairs becomes impossible to flank from for aliens.

Arachnid: Long hallways, but i do enjoy the occasional arachnid game on maejongā€™s edit. Although box room now has a spot for humans where you can kill a rant as shotty without him ever hitting you (basically another one man camp spot for humans to watch flanks that can only be killed by multiple aliens wasting a lot of time)

Mercy: The insanely abusable barrel spots in lower aliens to lower humans base, where a naked rifle can dance a rant, ruins the map imo.

Niveus: The fucking worst, aliens move to window like every fucking time, turning the game into a rantfest, if humans get plant room and aliens have somewhat decent rants you already know youā€™re in for a tl game. Box room is amazing in scrims but fucking garbage if you donā€™t have the whole team communicating (like that shit ever happens in pubs) One luci clears up entire base from stairs while the granger doesnt call out base under attack.

But niveus is usually just hummies camping the fuck out of ledge, eventually losing the game at around 40 minutes to a rant rush, another wasted 40 minutes.

/rant

15

As a player for 8ish years, atcs is by far my favorite map, but everything in moderation. It is currently well overplayed and there are so many fun maps out there, why would you only pick one? Im a firm believer that it should be in the map rotation, but no more often than any other map.

16

The fact is that there is not a more balanced map than ATCS. As Dark has said in his diatribe, all the other maps in the rotation have problems and issues leading to imbalance:

  • Tremor is horribly human biased.
  • Transit is horribly human biased.
  • Humans can build an unbeatable base on karith.
  • Niveus has terrible gameplay for pubs and more often than not turns into a H campfest/spamfest.
  • Nexus6 and Arachnid2 (not mjed) have pretty poor gameplay.
  • Most of the custom maps in the rotation have bad gameplay and/or are badly balanced.

Name me a good map that could realistically replace ATCS in the rotation and Iā€™ll tell you why youā€™re wrong.

17

You confuse me with bird. The people registered on this forum do not represent the majority of the server. I donā€™t vote because you canā€™t see your own bias.

18

utcs but thatā€™s already in rotation

19

The poll has two extremes:

  • Wanting A.T.C.S. to not be available for playing at all on your dream Tremulous server.
  • Wanting A.T.C.S. to be the only map available for playing on your dream Tremulous server with no other map.

The other options are degree between those two extremes, and Iā€™ve heard people take positions on all of them (including the two extremes). If both of the extremes are minorities, than any poll that is simply yes or no on one of those extremes would be biased in favor of not the extremes, if there were only two choices between those two extremes, only two minorities would be compared, and likely leave out the majority of the players. The point of this poll is to be as inclusive as possible and show that the player-base is not balck and white on this issue. Iā€™m most interested in seeing the distribution, as well as the resulting discussion.

I would like to add that none of the choices are right nor wrong in themselves, they represent personal preferences for oneā€™s ideal server., also the results of this particular poll will likely not have a major effect in the roll atcs plays in server roations of existing servers. There will be better ways to collect data and produce a practical statistical analysis on map preferences for the playerbase as a whole directly from a given game server.

Edit:

For further clarification, a minor role in the rotation would have atcs present in the rotation but only in a supplemental presence. A major role in the rotation would have atcs server a significant importance in the rotation complementing other maps in the rotation. A dominant role would have atcs serve central stage in the rotation and all other maps in the rotation would supplement atcs.

20

sparky out of the 7 options only 2 of them donā€™t feature atcs in the rotation. result = youā€™re splitting up the yes votes

1 Like
21

This is not meant to be a yes or no question. Which question are you thinking of that has a yes or no response?

22

Why is it you think transit is heavily human biased? Yes, it has VERY open and long spaces which favour human aiming, but itā€™s a large map. Larger maps greatly favour aliens due to their increased move-speed and ability to survive without a base. A lot of people commonly misjudge the overall balance of a map just by the ability of humans to aim. Additionally humans spawn with no armoury/medistation and 0 turrets. Jetpacks are very powerful, but so is the ability for aliens to scatter eggs, the map is so large even with a helmet itā€™s difficult.

As of now we have more good human players than good aliens players

Maps like transit favour humans over aliens, but this rebalances the game. The way I see it, the raw power goes to the aliens but the ability to adapt to a map should go to the human team. ATCS takes that advantage away from them.

There is almost zero reason not to use a Tyrant in ATCS, variables maps allow diversity between the alien classes. A rant cant hit this spot? Use a mara. A goon canā€™t snipe here? Sneak in with a basi. This type of gameplay rarely presents itā€™s self in ATCS. A rant rush is very commonly the reason for human defeat on this map. There is no reason for class diversity because the strongest brute force class has NO weakness there. The rants only general weakness is itā€™s size and lack of moveability, none of which are an issue in ATCS.

Why do people dislike Mercy?
What about that mapā€¦ 1987?

I refuse to believe ATCS, the most ugly and basic map in the default rotation, that was apparently constructed in under 30 minutes beats ALL the maps ever created in the history of tremulous.

1 Like